to be one, ask one, and customs

[bobthecow]

There has been discussion in my lodge about the custom that a man must
ask to join our fraternity, rather than be asked. In Illinois, this
is currently not the case, as we have an Invitation to Petition
program. A petition for degrees must be submitted, but this is after
the lodge has balloted on the candidate and the candidate has been
presented with the opportunity.

The refrain I hear and read is that a man must ask and not be asked,
but I wonder where that came from. I'm sure there's a good discussion
somewhere, but I can't find it. A brother recently stated that there
is no rule which dictates that a man can not be asked.

I'd appreciate your thoughts or direction to a good discussion of this
topic. Is this different across jurisdictions?

-- Kevin Sweeney
-- Elgin Lodge No. 117, Illinois

[Charles]

The refrain I hear and read is that a man must ask and not be asked, but
I wonder where that came from. I'm sure there's a good discussion
somewhere, but I can't find it. A brother recently stated that there is
no rule which dictates that a man can not be asked.
I'd appreciate your thoughts or direction to a good discussion of this
topic. Is this different across jurisdictions?

I suspect it would be different across jurisdictions. Technically it most
likely stems from the need for men to come of their own free will and
accord. Being asked to join something by someone one respects, or a
friend, can make one feel obliged to say yes merely because of the
connection one has to the person who has asked.

Personally I feel it is wise to go no further than asking a potential
candidate if he has considered *applying* to join.

That is the crux of the matter, if someone is asked if they'd like to
join a group they generally think they are wanted, and all they have to
do is rock up and say "yes please I want to join". The reality with
Masonry is different of course, the applicant is asking for *permission*
to join. Remember his application may not be successful.

I for one would be extremely annoyed if someone said "Hey wanna join x-
group?" And after I said "Yeah! where do I sign?" Was then told a few
weeks down the track, "Oh sorry the guys don't want you". I'd be thinking
things that I can't write here in polite company, but generally it'd be
along the line of, "What a bunch of losers, *THEY* asked me to join
*THEM*! And now they say they don't want me?!?!" And I'd be telling
everyone I knew about how shabbily I'd been treated by the Masons.

Much better to talk openly about Masonry, make sure they know they have
to *apply*, maybe ask if they'd ever considered *applying*, and then
making sure they knew that there'd be a vote and it wasn't a sure thing,
although it was likely to be successful (after all you wouldn't propose
someone you didn't know was of good character now would you?) :)

Charles
SW Maranoa Lodge 47 UGLQ

[Jim Bennie]

Post by bobthecow
The refrain I hear and read is that a man must ask and not be asked,
but I wonder where that came from.

Where? From the question asked of the candidate (to which he states "I do"
in open Lodge) which begins: "Unbiased by improper solicitation of
friends..." It's been asked since the 18th century; it's in Preston's
Illustrations.

Therefore, Masonic custom was someone was not asked to become a member.
Period. Then membership started falling 40 years ago and woe-crying Masons
tried to find ways around that, suddenly using the lawyerly logic that there
must be a "proper solicitation". Since "proper" was never defined, they
could define it.

Frankly, I don't understand the necessity of a programme. Are individual
Masons so tongue-tied that they can't invite a buddy to hang out with his
brothers at something and eventually (after an appropriate time) use this
simple phrase "If you ever want to join a Lodge, let me know."?

Jim, Vancouver

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Jim Bennie

Post by bobthecow
The refrain I hear and read is that a man must ask and not be asked,
but I wonder where that came from.

Where? From the question asked of the candidate (to which he states "I do"
in open Lodge) which begins: "Unbiased by improper solicitation of
friends..." It's been asked since the 18th century; it's in Preston's
Illustrations.

The exact wording and location vary. In Calfornia the questions are
asked by the Marshal outside of tiled lodge on the way to the
preparation room. In Illinois they are asked by the Secretary outside
of tiled lodge on the way to the preparation room.

That it appears in preston does answer the question of where it comes
form. Preston is as old as Grand Lodge Masonry gets. Roughly as old as
the split of the Antients and Moderns.

Post by Jim Bennie
Therefore, Masonic custom was someone was not asked to become a member.
Period.

Yet some grand lodges on mainland Europe are by invitation. Now I
wonder which ones do that and when they started. Was it in response to
Nazi persecution and thus new?

Post by Jim Bennie
Then membership started falling 40 years ago and woe-crying Masons
tried to find ways around that, suddenly using the lawyerly logic that there
must be a "proper solicitation". Since "proper" was never defined, they
could define it.

Given the word proper what's the difference between proper and improper?

Post by Jim Bennie
Frankly, I don't understand the necessity of a programme. Are individual
Masons so tongue-tied that they can't invite a buddy to hang out with his
brothers at something and eventually (after an appropriate time) use this
simple phrase "If you ever want to join a Lodge, let me know."?

I was taught not to invite. My wife got no such instruction. Just
sayin'.

[Rob Sandilands]

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Jim Bennie

Post by bobthecow
The refrain I hear and read is that a man must ask and not be asked,
but I wonder where that came from.

Where? From the question asked of the candidate (to which he states "I do"
in open Lodge) which begins: "Unbiased by improper solicitation of
friends..." It's been asked since the 18th century; it's in Preston's
Illustrations.

The exact wording and location vary. In Calfornia the questions are
asked by the Marshal outside of tiled lodge on the way to the
preparation room. In Illinois they are asked by the Secretary outside
of tiled lodge on the way to the preparation room.

... in the ritual we use over here, these matters are the first
questions addressed to the candidate by the Master in open Lodge ...

... the 'unbiased' question is also accompanied by questions asking if
the candidate has 'a favourable preconception of the Order preconceived'
... presumably this is formed, at least in part, of the candidate's
awareness and observations of Masons known to him ... even before he
considers petitioning ...

... if the man's answers indicate any problems in this area, the
ceremony stops ...

... one of the candidates I very proudly sponsored was a former boss of
mine whose petition arose after he was asked to provide a character
reference for a mutual friend who was in the process of petitioning ...
and asked me if I knew anything about the Craft and the type of
reference being sought ...

... other than that, we are told that, in our jurisdiction, a broad hint
and invitations to friends' nights are acceptable, whilst asking a man
to join is most definitely not ...

[Harland T. Culford]

The nice thing about freemasonry is that you never really have to deal
with a whole lot of new questions, the same ones keep going round and
round (ha ha) .

This would be from my personal interpretation; I have never asked
anyone to join freemasonry. However I have mentioned the craft to a
few men whom I thought would contribute greatly to the fraternity and
who would also benefit greatly from the fraternity. Here is where I
make the distinction, I do discuss some of the general topics or
beliefs of freemasonry but I never 'ask' them to join. I may make a
comment that I believe that they would really enjoy it but I also make
it very clear that it is up to them and, if in fact, they do decide to
look into it further, that it will be necessary for them to ask about
it. I point out that I will never bring it up again because we do not
solicit members, our beliefs are personal and I don't want to make
them feel uncomfortable. In almost every instance the person has
brought up the subject again to ask a question about something they
heard or read.

The bottom line for me is that a person should join because they have
a genuine interested in the fraternity, that they are self-motivated
to search out and investigate for themselves, and that if the
fraternity is something they are truly interested in that they will
ultimately take the step of asking how they can take the next step.

We join because we want to, we attend because we want to, and we
continue our relationship with the craft because we want to. No one
has to join, has to attend or has to continue in the craft if they
don't want to, freedom of choice.

Respectfully,

W. Bro. Harland T. Culford
Concord Lodge #79, G.L. B.C. & Y

[Steve Crane]

Post by bobthecow
There has been discussion in my lodge about the custom that a man must
ask to join our fraternity, rather than be asked.  In Illinois, this
is currently not the case, as we have an Invitation to Petition
program.  

In Idaho and Kansas work, one of the very first questions posed a
prospective new Brother before he enters the room to receive his EA -
"Is this of your own free will and accord?" (I ought to remember if
this is also the case in GL BC, but it's been too long since I watched
an EA degree in BC, sorry W. Bros. Jim and Harland)

Given that is the first question, and we don't want a Brother to make
a false statement at the very beginning of his Masonic career, then
the proscription against "asking" makes some sense. I do question the
premise. I don't think it necessarily forces a man to be false in his
answer if he has been asked to join. There's a significant amount of
distance between brow beating someone into submission and a simple
"ask".

Steve Crane
Lakeside #42, Sandpoint ID
Creston #54, Creston BC
Topeka #17, Topeka KS

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Steve Crane
In Idaho and Kansas work, one of the very first questions posed a
prospective new Brother before he enters the room to receive his EA -
"Is this of your own free will and accord?" (I ought to remember if
this is also the case in GL BC, but it's been too long since I watched
an EA degree in BC, sorry W. Bros. Jim and Harland)

It's also true in California and illinois.

Post by Steve Crane
Given that is the first question, and we don't want a Brother to make
a false statement at the very beginning of his Masonic career, then
the proscription against "asking" makes some sense. I do question the
premise. I don't think it necessarily forces a man to be false in his
answer if he has been asked to join. There's a significant amount of
distance between brow beating someone into submission and a simple
"ask".

Exactly.

The question "Is this of your own free will and accord" asks if you have
been pressured to join. It does NOT ask if you were invited.

It's my understanding that there are jurisdictions that are by
invitation only. I wonder if those jurisdictions have seen the century
long up an ddown swings in popularity that we have.

I read the rules for the Illinois "Invitation to Petition" program and
it was so involved I'm amazed to hear of even one lodge that jumps
through so many hoops before even approaching the man to find out if he
would be interested.