Points of Entrance

[Torence]

McCoy lists an original Twelve Grand Points each attributed for
various reasons to a different tribe of Israel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi,
Judah, Zebulem, Isaacher, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, Menessah,
& Benjamin. He further states that they were omitted from explanation
in the Union of 1813 in favor of “new points;” but these revisions are
not enumerated. Most EAs are taught to know themselves by these points
but our ritual in Illinois is inexplicit. Does any jurisdiction’s
ritual or lectures give details? If they remain absent from
instruction, then we should be able to discuss them here without
violating our Charter regards to ritual.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[Larry W]

Post by Torence
Most EAs are taught to know themselves by these points
but our ritual in Illinois is inexplicit. Does any jurisdiction’s
ritual or lectures give details?

The points are detailed in Oregon's lecture and are linked to cardinal
virtues.

[Torence]

Post by Larry W
The points are detailed in Oregon's lecture and are linked to cardinal
virtues.

You know, you would think that after twenty five years of regularly
seeing this rerun, that I would know the lecturers word for word even
if I do not perform them. In Illinois, the points of entrance are also
explained as the Tenets and Cardinal Virtues. I usually do our
Explanatory Lecture and run the slide show during this portion of the
work; and would probably benefit by actually listening to the other
lecturers. Fortunately, my lodge is doing two first degrees next
Tuesday; and, I will then have chance to pay better attention. Thank
you, Bros. Larry and Doug, for showing me the reference.
Evidently, and this may be a leap on my part, these explanations are
the “new points” that I am, at this point of my study, assuming were
adopted somewhere during the work of the Lodges of Reconciliation and
Propagation. The Athol lodges referred to themselves as
“Noahchims” (descendents of Noah); and I have an 1805 Book of
Constitutions with the Harper commentary to show so. Fortunately, I
also have a 1790 kit of books titled “The Craftsman,” mostly political
essays that include references to Moria and the Sedition Act etc. in
which our club is described as “Levites.”
McCoy lists “Twelve Grand Points of Entrance” that correspond
directly to the degree structure. For examples, whereas the Tribe of
Reuben is exemplified at the Lodge opening and the Tribe of Benjamin
is shown during the Closing, the Tribe of Issacher is characterized
during the circumambulation as this tribe was indolent and had to be
led to keep up with the others. When I read “Numbers,” the original
direction for lodge organization (twelve officers) is apparent. The
Levites were singled out to be a special group. Whereas all the other
eleven Tribes were directed to give up a portion of their men over
twenty years of age to serve as an army, the Levites were excluded
from conscription and had a special function.
The Tribe of Levi set up and then took down the Tabernacle to
transport it wherever the Israelites needed to travel. To designate a
group for this job makes sense, as pitching and carrying was usually
the work of women and children and kept the able bodied men free for
defense. However, the Holy Place in that setting was strictly a man’s
domain. It would not do to have women be the keepers of the important
pieces.
Presuming that the “Twelve Grand Points” were purposefully omitted
as McCoy states, I wonder who authored the new points and for what
reasons. These original twelve seem to me more interesting and
memorable. I will have to do more study.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[Jim Bennie]

Post by Torence
McCoy lists an original Twelve Grand Points

Who is "McCoy"?

Jim, Vancouver

[Torence]

Post by Jim Bennie

ￜ McCoy lists an original Twelve Grand Points

Who is "McCoy"?
Jim, Vancouver

Robert "MacCoy" 33ￜ. Sorry that dern automatic spell checker hinked me
up agin'

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon - Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 - Crete, Illinois
PM - Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 - Lansing, Illinois

[Mudge]

Post by Jim Bennie

Post by Torence
McCoy lists an original Twelve Grand Points

Who is "McCoy"?

The Doctor on the Star Ship Enterprise ??

[David Foster]

Brother Torence, that's an interesting question.
I'm curious to know if the Illinois Blue Lodge
follows the York Rite or the Scottish Rite
tradition? We don't mention the 12 points in the
EA degree here in Texas, which is Ancient York
Masonry. But we do encounter something like it in
one of the "higher" degrees in the Scottish Rite.
I'm not sure which degree, somewhere around 21
or 22 I think. However, we do spend some time in
the EA lecture dealing with the Four Cardinal Virtues.

David Foster
WM Colfax Lodge #904
PM Buna Lodge #1095
Ill. Grand Chaplain, Most Ill. Grand Council of
Royal and Select Masters in Texas
(Don't you love accolades?)

[Torence]

Post by David Foster
Brother Torence, that's an interesting question.
I'm curious to know if the Illinois Blue Lodge
follows the York Rite or the Scottish Rite
tradition?

Illinois uses the Scottish Rite set-up for its ritual but the
history of its selection shows much about how Masons behave once they
get involved with groups outside the safety of the tyled walls of
their own Local Lodges.
Our Grand Lodge is actually the second Grand Lodge organization
that was organized in 1840. The first was an Ancient York
organization. But its Grand Masters, Shadrach Bond (also Illinois
first Governor), James Hall (State Treasurer) and Guy were also
staunch abolitionists who kept Illinois from becoming a slave state.
We had a Grand Secretary, Harmon Reynolds, in the 1850s-1860s who saw
to it that little of the first Grand Lodge or the third Grand Lodge
that was attempted in Belleville in 1845 would be associated with main
stream Illinois FreeMasonry. The Grand Master, then, Episcopalian
Reverend Walker, was also accused of being an abolitionist when a
visitor from a Springfield Lodge saw that he admitted one A.B. Lewis,
a mulatto, as a visitor to Lafayette Lodge in Chicago over which he
was presiding. In that conflict the third Grand Lodge was attempted in
1845 when the founding lodges demanded that Walker declare his
position on race. This Grand Lodge had barely survived the Mormon
invasion at Nauvoo and the third Grand Lodge was a not only a way for
Masons to remove themselves from the Walker discussion; but to also
distance themselves from a Grand Lodge that harbored the assassins of
the Smith Brothers. (The Prophets not the Cough Drop dudes.)
The ritual was a key point to distinguish Illinois Masonry from
these other confederations.
When the second Grand Lodge was organized, Levi Lusk was appointed
to go to the Baltimore Convention to return with what promised to be
an agreed upon degree structure between the states. However, he left
too late and only made the journey as far as St. Louis. When the
Missouri delegation returned, he spent a month with them. What he
learned from them became our ritual when he was named our first Grand
Lecturer; and, as you may already know from the Baltimore Convention;
there was no consensus for a standard ritual.
In 1860, Chicago hosted a National Convention for Grand Masters and
Rob Morris from Kentucky demonstrated what was supposed to be a true
ritual from the Baltimore Convention commonly referred to as “The
Morris Trestleboard.” But there was great fear that the Grand Masters
were looking to form a National Grand Lodge, a common worry that has
some merit even today when they continue to gather. Supporters of the
Morris Trestleboard formed an organization known as the “Overseers of
the Work” and included several Past Grand Masters. When Grand Master
Gorin favored the new work, a conflict between him and Reynolds
culminated in the Reynolds forming “The Conservator’s Association” and
Reynolds ascending from the Grand Secretary’s chair to Grand
Mastership. He demanded a list of Illinois Masons belonging to the
Overseer’s Club and expelled all as a clandestine group including
Gorin and at least three PGMs.
Joseph Robbins, who was SW of Bodley Lodge No. 1 in Quincy Illinois
at the time, was one of those arbitrarily expelled. He appeared at the
Grand Lodge Session as a delegate and forced the issue by being tried
on the floor of the session. Though he and the others prevailed and
were, with a couple of exceptions, “healed,” the Levi Lusk-Smith-
Barney ritual became Illinois’ standard, excluding the Morris
Trestleboard and other systems then in use, and any deviation from it
meant condemnation. The Grand Lecturer-District Deputy System was
adopted to enforce the condition. Even the German speaking lodges,
eventually in Illinois, would succumb to the pressure and after some
years either converted or eradicated.
To date despite its shortcomings, such as not having a recommended
Bible presentation in the Book of Ceremonials or other adequacies
found in other jurisdiction’s rituals, zeal exists for static ritual.
I find the division generational. Even the relatively recent
publication (1986) of the Standard Work Book has as its motivation the
effect of imposing control rather then elevating consciousness and
conscientious which is a natural condition for best performance. The
expansion of Grand Lodge Offices, such as the introduction of Area
Deputy Grand Masters (1985), and our most recent extra layer Assistant
Area Deputy Grand Masters (2008) extends the decision making
capabilities of the Grand Lecturer’s Committee beyond its mandate of
recommending ritual to deciding usage, a Grand Master’s “prerogative”
which is different from a “power.”
There are a few Twenty-First Century men who find arguing points of
minutia appealing. I get into that mode occasionally myself. But most
would rather spread their wings in performance given permission to
fly.


Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[David Foster]

Well, anyway. The point I was making was that the
Scottish Rite probably preserves the 24 Points of
Entrance and the York Rite preserves the 4
Cardinal Virtues. Maybe. Just a guess.
David

[Torence]

Well, anyway. ï¿œThe point I was making was that the
Scottish Rite probably preserves the 24 Points of
Entrance and the York Rite preserves the 4
Cardinal Virtues. ï¿œMaybe. ï¿œJust a guess.
David

24? I have the "new points," gutteral, pectoral, manual and pedal,
which do not seem to be used at any "entrance" and the twelve that
align to the various stations of activity during the degree process.
Can you, without violating the groups charter, illustrate or give me a
reference for the other 12? Thanks.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon - Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 - Crete, Illinois
PM - Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 - Lansing, lllinois

[Larry W]

Post by Torence
I have the "new points," gutteral, pectoral, manual and pedal,
which do not seem to be used at any "entrance"

I can think of three instances in which one might demonstrate the points
at an entrance (I may be misinterpreting):

1) As part of the examination of a Mason visiting for the first time.

2) Upon entering an open Lodge.

3) As a candidate during a certain York Rite degree.

The last two, of course, don't include the guttural.

[Torence]

Post by Larry W
I can think of three instances in which one might demonstrate the points

I work with a rather international group and when we get a few
moments we share cultural details. Evidently there are many
superstitions regarding how to make entrances. Some folks from India,
evidently, have a custom where the doorway of their homes must face
the East. The idea being that when they leave for work they can greet
the rising sun, and when they return the sun is behind them. When
visiting or leaving a house belonging to a family from Thailand, it is
important to remember not to step on the doorsill. Their belief is
that a deity lives there that protects the family from sickness. To
disrespect the spirit is to drive them away and imperil all who enter
and live there.
I wonder how many of these customs exist globally.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[Jim Bennie]

Post by Larry W

Post by Torence
I have the "new points," gutteral, pectoral, manual and pedal,
which do not seem to be used at any "entrance"

I can think of three instances in which one might demonstrate the points

Further, further to my other post, Carlisle mentions "principle points" in
addition to "perfect points." The "principal points" are the four things
which you would hear about in (some) American jurisdictions in the First
Degree explanation. I'd have to check my green book to see if they're in the
Emulation lectures somewhere.

Jim, Vancouver

[Jim Bennie]

Post by Larry W
I can think of three instances in which one might demonstrate the points
1) As part of the examination of a Mason visiting for the first time.
2) Upon entering an open Lodge.
3) As a candidate during a certain York Rite degree.

The idea of four points is an Americanism. Harry Carr (in his The Freemason
at Work) outlines the origin of the term as found in 18th century ritual
documents and no mention is made at all of the monitorial matter that's been
discussed here.

The points are elucidated in two completely different ways by Preston,
depending on the version of the lecture he was using. One was picked up by
Richard Carlile and published in his early 19th century exposure of the
ritual. Elements of Carlile's work are found in the 'Canadian' ritual that
came from Ontario, including this one.

Jim, Vancouver

[R***@hotmail.com]

On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:22:50 CST, "Jim Bennie"

Post by Jim Bennie

Post by Larry W
I can think of three instances in which one might demonstrate the points
1) As part of the examination of a Mason visiting for the first time.
2) Upon entering an open Lodge.
3) As a candidate during a certain York Rite degree.

The idea of four points is an Americanism. Harry Carr (in his The Freemason
at Work) outlines the origin of the term as found in 18th century ritual
documents and no mention is made at all of the monitorial matter that's been
discussed here.
The points are elucidated in two completely different ways by Preston,
depending on the version of the lecture he was using. One was picked up by
Richard Carlile and published in his early 19th century exposure of the
ritual. Elements of Carlile's work are found in the 'Canadian' ritual that
came from Ontario, including this one.
Jim, Vancouver

An 1863 lecture by the Rev G Oliver DD includes:

" I rather prefer a beautiful illustration which was used half a
century ago, and ought not to have been omitted in the modern Ritual,
because it actually does include the whole ceremony of initiation. It
ran thus :-" How many original and perfect points have we in
Masonry?...Twelve. -Name them ?...Opening, Preparing, Reporting,
Entering, Prayer, Circumambulation, Advancing, Obligation, Intrusting,
Investing, Situation, and Closing.* -Why are they called original and
perfect points ?...Because they constitute the basis of the whole
system of Masonry, and without which, no one ever was, or ever can be,
legally received into the Order. Every person who is made a Mason must
go through all these twelve forms and ceremonies, not only in the
first degree, but in all subsequent ones."

* The twelve original and perfect points in Masonry, in use in the
ancient Lectures :
1. Opening = Reuben.
2. Preparing = Simeon.
3. Reporting = Levi.
4. Entering = Judah.
5. Prayer = Zebulon.
6. Circumambulation = Issachar.
7. Advancing = Dan.
8. Obligation = Gad.
9. Intrusting = Asher.
10. Investing = Naphtali.
11. Situation = Joseph {Ephraim. / Mannasseh}
12. Closing = Benjamin. "

[Torence]

2. Preparing = Simeon.
3. Reporting = Levi

Though we are taught as Masons to study the VSL, I have to admit my
education regards to it is rather lacking. Researching these points
took me to the story of Jacob and Hamor and the Romeo and Juliet story
of Hamor’s son Schechem and Jacob’s daughter Dinah. What Simeon and
Levi did to the men of Schechem was rather cruel; and illustrating the
story was probably not to the taste of 19th Century sensibilities.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[Stuart H.]

Post by Torence

2. Preparing = Simeon.
3. Reporting = Levi

Though we are taught as Masons to study the VSL, I have to admit my
education regards to it is rather lacking. Researching these points
took me to the story of Jacob and Hamor and the Romeo and Juliet story
of Hamor’s son Schechem and Jacob’s daughter Dinah. What Simeon and
Levi did to the men of Schechem was rather cruel; and illustrating the
story was probably not to the taste of 19th Century sensibilities.
Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

In our jurisdiction, according to our Canadian Rite ritual(one of only
two authorized for use), we have only three Perfect Points of Entrance:
O, A, O.

Regrettably I am not permitted to explain them on this forum, but will
share with a proven Brother if contacted at stuart at health4u dot ca.
Stuart H.
Alberta, Canada

[Torence]

Researching the entry points has led me to the vow made by Jepthah,
Judge Israel in the Book of Judges. Those folks back in those days had
some strange notions about parenting. Way to go Dad. How Samson came
to smote (smite?) the Phillistines also reveals something of the
caliber of men from the tribe of Dan. To that tribe is ascribed the
approach to the altar because they distinguished themselves only by
setting up a serpent for adoration. The advancement of the candidate,
according to the old points, is to teach how one must go in advance of
the crowd when ready in holiness and righteousness.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[p***@yahoo.com]

2. Preparing    =       Simeon.
3. Reporting    =       Levi

  Though we are taught as Masons to study the VSL, I have to admit my
education regards to it is rather lacking. Researching these points
took me to the story of Jacob and Hamor and the Romeo and Juliet story
of Hamor’s son Schechem and Jacob’s daughter Dinah. What Simeon and
Levi did to the men of Schechem was rather cruel; and illustrating the
story was probably not to the taste of 19th Century sensibilities.

Here is a fuller explanation of the Twelve Grand Points,
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/Symbolism/general_files/twelve_points_of_light.htm

I also saw a similar explanation in Mackey's Lexicon of Freemasonry,
1856 edition.

As for "I have the "new points," gutteral, pectoral, manual and pedal,
which do not seem to be used at any "entrance"" the entrance intended
by that wording is your entrance into the craft for the first time, as
an Entered Apprentice - Initiation in FM has, in some old wordings,
been called the Entrance.

Something I've been extremely confused about for a long time, and a
number of researchers in Freemasonic ritual history have had no
explanation for, is why are (outside of one small district in
Louisiana) any GL's in the US considered Scottish Rite as opposed to
York Rite?

The evolution of Masonic ritual in the USA predominantly predates the
creation of the 33 degree Scottish Rite in the early 1800's.

http://bessel.org/origins.htm

tp
Boston MA

[Jim Bennie]

Post by p***@yahoo.com
Something I've been extremely confused about for a long time, and a
number of researchers in Freemasonic ritual history have had no
explanation for, is why are (outside of one small district in
Louisiana) any GL's in the US considered Scottish Rite as opposed to
York Rite?

"Morgan", nice to see you again. It's been awhile. I'm trying to figure out
when we chatted at alt.freemasonry. Back when there were actually Masonic
conversations that went on there.

You ask "why are any GLs in the US considered Scottish Rite". I didn't think
any of them were.

To me, the Rites .. Scottish, York, the now-dead Ancient and Primitive ..
are concordant bodies. Grand Lodges are not part of them.

Some American Masons hold a differing viewpoint, arguing some of the YR
degrees were originally conferred in Lodges thus that makes Craft Masonry
part of York Rite Masonry.

Jim, No. 44, Vancouver

[Alex Fisher]

Post by Jim Bennie

Post by p***@yahoo.com
Something I've been extremely confused about for a long time, and a
number of researchers in Freemasonic ritual history have had no
explanation for, is why are (outside of one small district in
Louisiana) any GL's in the US considered Scottish Rite as opposed to
York Rite?

"Morgan", nice to see you again. It's been awhile. I'm trying to figure
out when we chatted at alt.freemasonry. Back when there were actually
Masonic conversations that went on there.
You ask "why are any GLs in the US considered Scottish Rite". I didn't
think any of them were.
To me, the Rites .. Scottish, York, the now-dead Ancient and Primitive ..
are concordant bodies. Grand Lodges are not part of them.
Some American Masons hold a differing viewpoint, arguing some of the YR
degrees were originally conferred in Lodges thus that makes Craft Masonry
part of York Rite Masonry.

The "Scottish Rite" was originally developed in France by Scottish
expatriates, where it became known as the "Rite Écossais".

Those parts of what is now the USA which were settled by the French used the
form of ritual from France, which just happened to be the Rite Écossais or
Scottish Rite. If you've read Morals and Dogma you'll have read chapters
relating to the first 3 degrees, which share the same names as in English
Freemasonry.

These rituals are not used in most jurisdictions of the US, exceptions being
in the South (Louisiana I believe is one). Those exceptions allow some
Lodges (most likely older lodges which predate the formation of the local
Grand Lodges) to continue to use the ritual alluded to in M&D for the 3
Craft degrees.

- From reading M&D, there are definitely some differences when compared to the
ritual (and working tools) that most of us are familiar with.

Most of the US grand lodges are based on the English workings, and since one
of the earliest Grand Lodges was York, my guess it that this is the source
of referring to the "York Rite". We have many of the same degrees here in
Queensland, with the same or similar names. It is *not* referred to
as "York Rite", or nay "Rite for that matter.

We also have a set of degrees which I understand are the same as the AASR
series, however in Queensland ti is simply the A&AR (Ancient and Accepted
Rite), without the "Scottish" (considering the various A&AR groups are in
areas with a strong representation of ex-S.C. lodges, perhaps
the "Scottish" appellation was felt unnecessary.

Post by Jim Bennie
Jim, No. 44, Vancouver

- --
Alex Fisher
Lodge Caledonian No. 14
United Grand Lodge of Queensland

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by p***@yahoo.com
As for "I have the "new points," gutteral, pectoral, manual and pedal,

The sequence is a poetic description of the events of the first
degree as I've learned it in two US jurisdictions. Ask to be
admitted, be received, taken by hand, walked around. The
lectures discuss the cardinal virtues use the words for other
reasons. Redundancy and repetition seems a hallmark of the
degrees. There are all sorts of sequences that are similar
meanings repeated in several ways.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
which do not seem to be used at any "entrance"" the entrance intended
by that wording is your entrance into the craft for the first time, as
an Entered Apprentice - Initiation in FM has, in some old wordings,
been called the Entrance.

Since the first degree is call Entered apprentice, there is some
sense in using the word Enterence as a symonym for
Initiation. Yet another place that the degrees use multiple
words with similar meanings to desribe the same thing.

Vocabulary size is supposed to be correlated with success in
life, or at least with advancement in career. Our degrees are
packed with symonyns that have the effect of expanding the
vocabularies of most brothers. Nice how that works out, and
here we are a couple of centuries later discussing one of the
vocabulary variations!

Fraternal regards,
Doug Freyburger
PM 2007-8 Arlington Heights 1162 Illinois AF&AM www.ahml.org
PM 1999 Pasadena 272 California F&AM www.emasons.org

[Torence]

Post by Doug Freyburger
Redundancy and repetition seems a hallmark of the
degrees. There are all sorts of sequences that are similar
meanings repeated in several ways.

These anomalies, however, were not necessarily were in the
original design. The history of how the ritual developed shows that
many sources contributed directly and indirectly and the commingling
of several good stories peppered up “the ties.”
The Twelve Grand Points as part of the Royal Arch drew from work at
the Grand Lodge of York and Dassigny recorded it at work in The Lodge
at Dublin in 1744. Dermott, as a young Mason, was exalted two years
later in Dublin in his Craft Lodge. Not long after that, the Royal
Arch was being done here in America at Fredericksburg, Virginia, 1753.
Thomas Dunkerly, King George II’s son, was exalted in the Lodge of
Antiquity at Portsmouth, 1754. As late at 1824, Edward Sibley, the
lodge of Antiquity’s Secretary wrote the Grand Secretary for
permission for his Lodge to resume the practice of performing the
Royal Arch as a part of Craft Lodge Masonry. Lord Blayney lost his
Grand Mastership in the Premier Grand Lodge in 1766 over the
controversy of setting up a Charter of Compact for a Royal Arch,
Prince of Jerusalem during his term. The Earl of Moira was exalted in
1803 and the Duke of Sussex in 1810, three years before the union. The
union accepted that the Royal Arch was “a part of pure ancient
Masonry.”
Given the demographic of Freemasonry in the twenty-first Century,
is there a need any longer for a separate administration for the Royal
Arch? Or should these degrees, Past Master, Mark Master, Excellent and
High Excellent and the Royal Arch followed by the Knight Templar be
incorporated into the Blue Lodge degree structure?
Should Local Lodge Masters be permitted to have his officers do
this work if they so choose?

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[David Foster]

Post by Torence

Post by Doug Freyburger
Redundancy and repetition seems a hallmark of the
degrees. There are all sorts of sequences that are similar
meanings repeated in several ways.

These anomalies, however, were not necessarily were in the
original design. The history of how the ritual developed shows that
many sources contributed directly and indirectly and the commingling
of several good stories peppered up “the ties.”
The Twelve Grand Points as part of the Royal Arch drew from work at
the Grand Lodge of York and Dassigny recorded it at work in The Lodge
at Dublin in 1744. Dermott, as a young Mason, was exalted two years
later in Dublin in his Craft Lodge. Not long after that, the Royal
Arch was being done here in America at Fredericksburg, Virginia, 1753.
Thomas Dunkerly, King George II’s son, was exalted in the Lodge of
Antiquity at Portsmouth, 1754. As late at 1824, Edward Sibley, the
lodge of Antiquity’s Secretary wrote the Grand Secretary for
permission for his Lodge to resume the practice of performing the
Royal Arch as a part of Craft Lodge Masonry. Lord Blayney lost his
Grand Mastership in the Premier Grand Lodge in 1766 over the
controversy of setting up a Charter of Compact for a Royal Arch,
Prince of Jerusalem during his term. The Earl of Moira was exalted in
1803 and the Duke of Sussex in 1810, three years before the union. The
union accepted that the Royal Arch was “a part of pure ancient
Masonry.”
Given the demographic of Freemasonry in the twenty-first Century,
is there a need any longer for a separate administration for the Royal
Arch? Or should these degrees, Past Master, Mark Master, Excellent and
High Excellent and the Royal Arch followed by the Knight Templar be
incorporated into the Blue Lodge degree structure?
Should Local Lodge Masters be permitted to have his officers do
this work if they so choose?
Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

Brother Torence, you do amaze me some times with
your knowledge of stuff. That was one very
interesting post. The questions you raise are
worthy of consideration, too. But the degree
structure you mention - Past Master, Mark Master,
Excellent and High Excellent and the Royal Arch
followed by the Knight Templar - is not the same
everywhere. In Texas we have Past Master, Mark
Master, Most Excellent Master and then Royal Arch.
Then we have the two Cryptic Degrees of the
Council - Royal Master and Select Master. Then we
have the Chivalric Orders of Knighthood - Red
Cross, Malta, and Knight Templar.
David Foster
Ill. Grand Chaplain of the Most Ill. Grand Council
of Royal and Select Masters of Texas

[R***@hotmail.com]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:58:23 CST, David Foster

Post by David Foster

Post by Torence

Post by Doug Freyburger
Redundancy and repetition seems a hallmark of the
degrees. There are all sorts of sequences that are similar
meanings repeated in several ways.

These anomalies, however, were not necessarily were in the
original design. The history of how the ritual developed shows that
many sources contributed directly and indirectly and the commingling
of several good stories peppered up “the ties.”
The Twelve Grand Points as part of the Royal Arch drew from work at
the Grand Lodge of York and Dassigny recorded it at work in The Lodge
at Dublin in 1744. Dermott, as a young Mason, was exalted two years
later in Dublin in his Craft Lodge. Not long after that, the Royal
Arch was being done here in America at Fredericksburg, Virginia, 1753.
Thomas Dunkerly, King George II’s son, was exalted in the Lodge of
Antiquity at Portsmouth, 1754. As late at 1824, Edward Sibley, the
lodge of Antiquity’s Secretary wrote the Grand Secretary for
permission for his Lodge to resume the practice of performing the
Royal Arch as a part of Craft Lodge Masonry. Lord Blayney lost his
Grand Mastership in the Premier Grand Lodge in 1766 over the
controversy of setting up a Charter of Compact for a Royal Arch,
Prince of Jerusalem during his term. The Earl of Moira was exalted in
1803 and the Duke of Sussex in 1810, three years before the union. The
union accepted that the Royal Arch was “a part of pure ancient
Masonry.”
Given the demographic of Freemasonry in the twenty-first Century,
is there a need any longer for a separate administration for the Royal
Arch? Or should these degrees, Past Master, Mark Master, Excellent and
High Excellent and the Royal Arch followed by the Knight Templar be
incorporated into the Blue Lodge degree structure?
Should Local Lodge Masters be permitted to have his officers do
this work if they so choose?
Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

Brother Torence, you do amaze me some times with
your knowledge of stuff. That was one very
interesting post. The questions you raise are
worthy of consideration, too. But the degree
structure you mention - Past Master, Mark Master,
Excellent and High Excellent and the Royal Arch
followed by the Knight Templar - is not the same
everywhere. In Texas we have Past Master, Mark
Master, Most Excellent Master and then Royal Arch.
Then we have the two Cryptic Degrees of the
Council - Royal Master and Select Master. Then we
have the Chivalric Orders of Knighthood - Red
Cross, Malta, and Knight Templar.
David Foster
Ill. Grand Chaplain of the Most Ill. Grand Council
of Royal and Select Masters of Texas

In New South Wales, Australia, craft Lodges are permitted to be
accredited to perform the Mark Man ceremony.

In New Zealand, Royal Arch Chapters perform the degrees of Mark
Master, Excellent Master and Royal Arch (recognised bythe Grand Lodge
as being part of pure and antient Freemasonry), and many also perform
the ceremonies of Red Cross of Babylon (Knights of the East and West),
and Ark Mariner.

[David Simpson]

Post by R***@hotmail.com
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:58:23 CST, David Foster

Post by David Foster

Post by Torence

Post by Doug Freyburger
Redundancy and repetition seems a hallmark of the
degrees. There are all sorts of sequences that are similar
meanings repeated in several ways.

These anomalies, however, were not necessarily were in the
original design. The history of how the ritual developed shows that
many sources contributed directly and indirectly and the commingling
of several good stories peppered up “the ties.”
The Twelve Grand Points as part of the Royal Arch drew from work at
the Grand Lodge of York and Dassigny recorded it at work in The Lodge
at Dublin in 1744. Dermott, as a young Mason, was exalted two years
later in Dublin in his Craft Lodge. Not long after that, the Royal
Arch was being done here in America at Fredericksburg, Virginia, 1753.
Thomas Dunkerly, King George II’s son, was exalted in the Lodge of
Antiquity at Portsmouth, 1754. As late at 1824, Edward Sibley, the
lodge of Antiquity’s Secretary wrote the Grand Secretary for
permission for his Lodge to resume the practice of performing the
Royal Arch as a part of Craft Lodge Masonry. Lord Blayney lost his
Grand Mastership in the Premier Grand Lodge in 1766 over the
controversy of setting up a Charter of Compact for a Royal Arch,
Prince of Jerusalem during his term. The Earl of Moira was exalted in
1803 and the Duke of Sussex in 1810, three years before the union. The
union accepted that the Royal Arch was “a part of pure ancient
Masonry.”
Given the demographic of Freemasonry in the twenty-first Century,
is there a need any longer for a separate administration for the Royal
Arch? Or should these degrees, Past Master, Mark Master, Excellent and
High Excellent and the Royal Arch followed by the Knight Templar be
incorporated into the Blue Lodge degree structure?
Should Local Lodge Masters be permitted to have his officers do
this work if they so choose?
Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

Brother Torence, you do amaze me some times with
your knowledge of stuff. That was one very
interesting post. The questions you raise are
worthy of consideration, too. But the degree
structure you mention - Past Master, Mark Master,
Excellent and High Excellent and the Royal Arch
followed by the Knight Templar - is not the same
everywhere. In Texas we have Past Master, Mark
Master, Most Excellent Master and then Royal Arch.
Then we have the two Cryptic Degrees of the
Council - Royal Master and Select Master. Then we
have the Chivalric Orders of Knighthood - Red
Cross, Malta, and Knight Templar.
David Foster
Ill. Grand Chaplain of the Most Ill. Grand Council
of Royal and Select Masters of Texas

In New South Wales, Australia, craft Lodges are permitted to be
accredited to perform the Mark Man ceremony.
In New Zealand, Royal Arch Chapters perform the degrees of Mark
Master, Excellent Master and Royal Arch (recognised bythe Grand Lodge
as being part of pure and antient Freemasonry), and many also perform
the ceremonies of Red Cross of Babylon (Knights of the East and West),
and Ark Mariner.

In Victoria, Australia there is a separate Mark Grand Lodge which
controls the Mark and Ark Mariner lodges and a Grand Chapter which
controls the Holy Royal Arch Chapters. There are separate
organisations for most of the other degrees such as the Rose Croix,
and Ancient and Accepted Rite.

[Torence]

Post by David Foster
Brother Torence, you do amaze me some times with
your knowledge of stuff. That was one very
interesting post. The questions you raise are
worthy of consideration, too.

Well, we are experiencing intermittent showers here in Chicago; and,
I have had some down time to ponder such things between planting my
garden when they stop. This old Lecture of Points was used by our
first Grand Lodge in Illinois which styled itself as an Ancient York
Grand Lodge; and, I personally feel it o.k. to use if we were to
change the current Illinois Code that restricts it.

Post by David Foster
But the degree structure you mention - Past Master, Mark Master,
Excellent and High Excellent and the Royal Arch
followed by the Knight Templar - is not the same
everywhere.

The Lodge in Kent, England included that structure in their Craft
Degrees during the 1790s; and I think it reasonable to assume that
before a separate Royal Arch Society was established that these
degrees were included in this order not only in England, but in at
least some United States lodges at the inception of our country. The
Lodge of Promulgation considered inserting the Mark Master degree
after the Fellow Craft and before the Master Mason’s degree in 1817;
but the Lodge of Reconciliation intervened. For these degrees to
survive, the separate administration was formed amongst the exalted.
However, on this side of the big water, many of the old practices
continued. Even at the inception of our second Grand Lodge in 1840,
the minutes show that after his election, a college of Past Masters
was convened and our first Grand Master of the 2nd Grand Lodge, Abram
Jonas, passed the chair via the Past Master’s ceremony. That incident
was the only one like it in the Grand Lodge record. We have not
performed the work in the Craft lodges since. However, the records
shows some lodges continued to utilize the Past Master’s Ceremony for
the first quarter century especially those lodges that did not
immediately join with this Grand Lodge.
Most curiously though, these first minutes also show that Abram
Jonas passed the chair… “by proxy.” How could that be? Sounds like a
subterfuge to me.
As Grand Lodges should become less extensive structurally in this
century, IMHO, then our best talent should be enabled to do more work
in their local lodges. A return to the old standards of diversity in
ritual and a variety format for lectures just might be the ticket to
stimulating additional participation for the local Lodge.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[David Foster]

Post by Torence
As Grand Lodges should become less extensive structurally in this
century, IMHO, then our best talent should be enabled to do more work
in their local lodges. A return to the old standards of diversity in
ritual and a variety format for lectures just might be the ticket to
stimulating additional participation for the local Lodge.

Interesting idea. I doubt if it would ever fly,
though. The big wigs are so jealous of doing the
work "just so" they would never allow the
diversity you speak of.
David

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Doug Freyburger
Redundancy and repetition seems a hallmark of the

degrees.  There are all sorts of sequences that are similar
meanings repeated in several ways.

    These anomalies, however, were not necessarily were in the
original design. The history of how the ritual developed shows that
many sources contributed directly and indirectly and the commingling
of several good stories peppered up “the ties.”

The ritual also contains hints of a time when there were two
degrees - taken and accepted among brothers and fellows.

The form of the third degree addresses discussions of a
jurisdiction having more influence from York rite versus
Scotish rite, but it takes knowledge of both and reading
historical versions of both. I don't know enough about
York Rite to judge accurately but the version of the
Scotish Rite I went through was several degrees past
the third by the time the ruffains are apprended. This
leads me to conclude that the California and Illinois rituals
I have learned both show more York Rite influence than
Scotish Rite influence.

Post by Doug Freyburger
   Given the demographic of Freemasonry in the twenty-first Century,
is there a need any longer for a separate administration for the Royal
Arch? Or should these degrees, Past Master, Mark Master, Excellent and
High Excellent and the Royal Arch followed by the Knight Templar be
incorporated into the Blue Lodge degree structure?

Given the demogrpahics, a small minority of Master
Masons in the US go through the York Rite. A larger
minority go through the Scotish Rite. Based only on
the demographics within a single jurisdiction I tend to
answer no.

But North America isn't all the Masonic world. I think a
lot of English craft lodges do the 4th degree. I think the
Swedish GL has 12 degrees. I think a lot more grand
jurisdictions do 3 degrees than any other number. If I
thought it was entirely about demographics among the
jurisdictions of the world again I tend to answer no.

But my bias of being a Scotish Rite Mason not a York
Rite Mason tells me my no responses here can't be
used as a sound basis for an informed unbiased stance.
On Saturday there was a York Rite college plus Shrine
Ceremonial at my local Shrine (Medinah). I may well
take some of the York Rite degrees some day but it's
not in my plan for a few years. I didn't attend.

Post by Doug Freyburger
   Should Local Lodge Masters be permitted to have his officers do
this work if they so choose?

I think under UGLE rules each lodge gets to decide its
own ritual. That's a very different system than the US
system of standardized ritual. This is another point where
my bias of being under one way means I am too uninformed
to judge.

What I've seen of proposed ritual changes is most of the
proposed ones are very poor even when the proposal is
by folks in the GL who are in charge of preserving the
ritual. This gives me a bias in favor of standardized ritual.
If changes to the standard tend to make it worse IMNSHO,
when deviations from the standard are likely to have the
same problem again IMNSHO.

[Bill M]

Post by Doug Freyburger
But North America isn't all the Masonic world. I think a
lot of English craft lodges do the 4th degree.

UGLE Lodges work the EA, FC & MM Degrees, and conduct the ceremony of
Installed Master. In Scotland, GLoS Lodges work the EA, FC including
the Mark, and MM Degrees, and conduct the ceremony of Installed Master.

Post by Doug Freyburger
I think under UGLE rules each lodge gets to decide its
own ritual. That's a very different system than the US
system of standardized ritual. This is another point where
my bias of being under one way means I am too uninformed
to judge.
What I've seen of proposed ritual changes is most of the
proposed ones are very poor even when the proposal is
by folks in the GL who are in charge of preserving the
ritual. This gives me a bias in favor of standardized ritual.
If changes to the standard tend to make it worse IMNSHO,
when deviations from the standard are likely to have the
same problem again IMNSHO.

UGLE Lodges fall into broad camps as far as ritual is concerned, and
many have some particular element that distinguishes the Lodge.
Scotland has many, many variations on ritual, where Lodges only a few
miles apart work with varying ritual, different signs, and different
regalia as well. I come down heavily on the side of variation. GLoS
removed the use of the ancient penalties in the obligations by statute
years ago but there are many Lodges that still use them because they are
part of "antient usage and established custom", and this is just one
indication of how their ritual is being maintained. A visit to a
Scottish Lodge always throws up something new, some piece of prose, some
explanation unheard before.

The idea of changing the ritual to meet some immediate condition or
state of understanding doesn't sit well with me. With each change,
something is lost forever. Google "shakespeare runes graves" and,
whether or not you you accept Dr Graves' assertions, you can see how
small changes may cause unintended loss.

Best,
Bill M, Aberdeen, Scotland
PM Brimmond 1535, RWM Aurora Borealis 1809
and a shedload of other stuff too.

[Torence]

Post by Doug Freyburger
I think under UGLE rules each lodge gets to decide its
own ritual. That's a very different system than the US
system of standardized ritual.

Historically, the system that works best is the one where the
Local Lodge has maintained its position as the primary Overseer for
the Craft. A “Grand” Lodges has no “authoricta se,” authority of its
self; but must take from the Local Lodge the privileges it covets.

Post by Doug Freyburger
What I've seen of proposed ritual changes is most of the
proposed ones are very poor even when the proposal is
by folks in the GL who are in charge of preserving the
ritual.

More evidence, IMHO, that the wrong powers are making these
decisions. Most alterations in the record were politically motivated
and ego driven. The fault, in Illinois, is that the Board of Grand
Examiners in the twentieth century did not keep to their nineteenth
century mandate of not being “a college for Grand Line Officers.” As
various Chairmen of the Board of Grand Examiners pass through the
chairmanship before ascending to the Grand Line and the Grand East,
too many wanted to leave their mark, usually by inventing some new
choreography. There is much to be read about a man who takes on a job
of preserving work; and then uses his position to alter it. I think it
well within the purview of the Senior Deacon of a Local Lodge, for
example, to decide whether or not the VSL is out of reach; and, that
he may need to pull it towards him before illumination. In twenty-five
years, I have never considered that I needed some other Brother’s
“permission” to do so. “Recommending” ritual and choreography is
another matter.
As committee work in any business always produces a result that
will go to the least common denominator, the current system could only
distribute work that in its best incarnation, is, well, “standard.”
Personally, I am left uninspired by ordinary work. For excellence, an
unfettered hand needs to create especially when the mother of all
creation, necessity, dictates the advance. “Innovation” to the
Ancients was not a dirty word; and, when we read the phrase that it is
not in the power of “a” man, or “body” of men to make alterations here
in our club, we should not ignore the advice and give that purview to
a single Officer, an Assembly, or a Committee; but keep the right
where it belongs, at the home lodge.

Post by Doug Freyburger
UGLE Lodges fall into broad camps as far as ritual is concerned, and
many have some particular element that distinguishes the Lodge.
Scotland has many, many variations on ritual, where Lodges only a few
miles apart work with varying ritual, different signs, and different
regalia as well.

Over the years, the Scotts have surpassed us Americans when
preserving independence. We owe much to the Scottish population at the
inception of our nation to model what it is to be a man’s man.

Post by Doug Freyburger
I come down heavily on the side of variation. GLoS
removed the use of the ancient penalties in the obligations by statute
years ago but there are many Lodges that still use them because they are
part of "antient usage and established custom", and this is just one
indication of how their ritual is being maintained. A visit to a
Scottish Lodge always throws up something new, some piece of prose, some
explanation unheard before.

I am reminded here of the 1908 episode when a Scottish Lodge
received the pugilist, Jack Johnson, as a member on his merits as a
man. At a time when no other Lodge would accept material because of
its color, particularly a man who had the audacity of openly
miscegenating, these Scotts Brothers were a century ahead of their
time in their mindset. The American Masonic reaction was an
embarrassment then, and is even more of a shame when considered today.
This incident is another example of how such decisions, as for example
who to accept as a member, is best left to the authority of the Local
Lodge and no other entity.
The Scottish Lodges who chose to do so are right that keep the
penalties in their work as these phrases relate to how contracts were
made in the Old Testament. Those that champion their removal never do
the study to understand their importance. They cater to some other
kind of person than a FreeMason, and are likely just as lazy in their
work, IMHO, as they are in their study.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[p***@yahoo.com]

Post by Torence
“Innovation” to the
Ancients was not a dirty word; and, when we read the phrase that it is
not in the power of “a” man, or “body” of men to make alterations here
in our club, we should not ignore the advice and give that purview to
a single Officer, an Assembly, or a Committee; but keep the right
where it belongs, at the home lodge.

To Br. Torence:

See, we need to look closely at the wording of the "innovation issue":

as noted here: http://www.freemason.com/education/Innovation_and_Masonry.pdf

"This was followed by the resolution of June 24,1723: "That it is not
in the Power of any person or body of men, to make any Alteration, or
Innovation in the Body of Masonry without the Consent first obtained
of the Annual Grand Lodge." William Preston, considered by most as the
father of Masonic ritual, when writing his lectures, varied the
language so that it read: "No man or body of men can make any
innovation in the Body of Masonry, . . ." Through the years, the
Preston version of the 39th General Regulation has become the
foundation stone of the "no innovation" principal in current Masonic
Law. One need only to look at the Constitutions of the several
American Grand Lodges to see that a majority have adopted the
principle. The fact is that the Preston version of the 39th General
Regulation is of itself an innovation and contrary to the Book of
Constitutions."

to Br. Jim Bennie:
It's been a long while since we chatted on alt.freemasonry, however,
I'm also on MasonicLight, usually getting myself in trouble. I'm also
commenting on a few blogspot/aggregated blog (freemasoninformation
being one of them) as MP.

Since I last remember being on alt.freemasonry, I have been divorced
once, Installed as Master, deployed to Iraq, and now back, and
teaching for the Army.

The VERY interesting thing for me is to see Doug Freyburger here, as I
remember chatting with HIM back in 1992-1994 while I had telnet access
from Norwich University to my old usenet account from when I was in
summer school at U. Maryland - the long road I have travelled, from
when I had been commenting on the Masonic Digest Br. Peter Trei used
to run, and dealing with the objections to my religion by the WM of
the Lodge which Initiated me, yet refused to pass me, raise me, or
grant me permission to get courtesy work done (all of which took me
over to the Compuserve Masonry forum) ...

Time flies.

I still don't get the idea that any specific Lodge or GL in the US is
York Rite or Scottish Rite, as most of our rituals derive from Preston
and Webb, or from the Moderns, the Ancients, GL of Ireland or GL of
Scotland, as noted by Br Paul Bessel http://bessel.org/origins.htm

Morgan
in MA

[Torence]

Post by p***@yahoo.com
The VERY interesting thing for me is to see Doug Freyburger here, as I
remember chatting with HIM back in 1992-1994 while I had telnet access
from Norwich University to my old usenet account from when I was in
summer school at U. Maryland - the long road I have travelled, from
when I had been commenting on the Masonic Digest Br. Peter Trei used
to run, and dealing with the objections to my religion by the WM of
the Lodge which Initiated me, yet refused to pass me, raise me, or
grant me permission to get courtesy work done (all of which took me
over to the Compuserve Masonry forum) .

My pleasure has been to meet Brother Doug face to face. He is as
impressive in person as he is in type.
When I was reinstated after my Masonic trial and our Lodge had its
Charter restored, we made it a policy to be sort of a haven to those
who have not been treated as well as they should be in their home
lodges. Each year, we pick up new affiliates and plural members.
Learning a bit from popular culture, in this case “Betelgeuse,” at the
time, I put together an article for our newsletter titled, “Handbook
for the Recently Demitted.” If I can find it, perhaps I will update
it; and then reuse it as one of my summer articles for our current
Masonic Newsletter.
Some of our best officers initially came from rejected stock.
Personally, I do not get “it.” If your lodge is so well off as to not
need to use its available and willing material, then we will happily
pick up your cast offs. Oh sure, we are a bit like Rudolph the Red
Nose Reindeer’s island of rejected toys, (we even have an elf among us
that wanted to and became a Dentist.) But I think these qualities to
be our charm. We sure do have fun. Last night, just us Deacons and
Stewards got together to practice floor work with our resident GL; and
we had a laugh riot. Is there much laughter heard around your Lodge
Halls?
Funny how it is that the same Brothers who lament that the
fraternity did not sustain the inflated numbers of the Silent
Generation continue to perpetuate and even champion a modus operandi
fueled by no better a tenet than bigotry. We are supposed to take from
here the stuff that we can use to make life better; and not come in to
do what we cannot, without injury to ourselves, albeit warranted
damage, get away with in the neighborhood.
I will say this, however, regards the religion issue. If “you,” (the
hypothetical “you” not the original poster) are a member of a
totalitarian religion, one that has as its purpose world domination,
then unfortunately you are a member of an organization incompatible
with FreeMasonry just as, for comparison, being a Communist makes a
candidate unsuitable. These groups, if their constituents ascribe to
their doctrines and policies, cause their rank and file to take a
stand that does not agree with the declarations of our club. We
respectfully request that the interested reapply later, when they have
worked things out, discarded the hurtful pretensions; and are ready to
make thing better for themselves and their families.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by p***@yahoo.com
Since I last remember being on alt.freemasonry, I have been divorced
once, Installed as Master, deployed to Iraq, and now back, and
teaching for the Army.

I've been through the line in both California and Illinois.
My military service was 78-84 all peacetime over well
before I petitioned.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
The VERY interesting thing for me is to see Doug Freyburger here, as I
remember chatting with HIM back in 1992-1994 while I had telnet access
from Norwich University to my old usenet account from when I was in
summer school at U. Maryland - the long road I have travelled, from
when I had been commenting on the Masonic Digest Br. Peter Trei used
to run, and dealing with the objections to my religion by the WM of
the Lodge which Initiated me, yet refused to pass me, raise me, or
grant me permission to get courtesy work done (all of which took me
over to the Compuserve Masonry forum) ...

There's hardly a better argument for why we forbid
discussion of religion within tiled space than this
experience. Our petitions ask if we believe in the
existance of a supreme being. We say yes. Maybe
the petitions have lines for character references who
will report that you have a reputation for honesty
(California petition has character references, Illinois
petition does not so it's not universal). Done. It is
supposed to be that simple, but it's so tempting to
make it more complicated. I'm sadenned that you
had such an experience.

The longer since taking my degrees the more I think
it should be kept that simple.

Fraternal regards,
Doug Freyburger
PM 1999 Pasadena 272 California F&AM www.emasons.org
PM 2007-8 Arilngton Heights 1162 Illinois AF&AM www.ahml.org

[Larry W]

Well, anyway. The point I was making was that the Scottish Rite
probably preserves the 24 Points of Entrance and the York Rite preserves
the 4 Cardinal Virtues. Maybe. Just a guess.
David

Based on what I've read just here, it's not a bad guess; Oregon observes
York Rite.