There is absolutely no restriction on the basis of belief, race, source, social position or nationality.

[Chris Jacobs]

{quote}
Kan iedereen lid worden van de Orde van Vrijmetselaren?

Het lidmaatschap staat open voor iedere vrije man van goede naam.
Dat laatste wil zeggen dat zijn reputatie geen aanleiding zal geven tot discussie.
Er is geen enkele beperking op grond van geloof, ras, afkomst, maatschappelijke positie of nationaliteit.
Wel dient men de leeftijd van 18 jaar te hebben bereikt.
{/quote}
http://www.vrijmetselarij.nl/Ordesite/Paginas/AntwLidmaatschap/tabid/575/Default.aspx#4.1

{quote}
Can everyone member becomes of the order of Vrijmetselaren?

The membership is open for every free man of good name.
That last meanss that its reputation no reason will give to discussion.
There is absolutely no restriction on the basis of belief, race, source, social position or nationality.
However, one must have reached the age of 18 years.
{/quote}
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt

Looks to me as if the Dutch Grootoosten does not require a belief in a Supreme Being?

Chris

[Larry W]

Post by Chris Jacobs
Looks to me as if the Dutch Grootoosten does not require a belief in a Supreme Being?

Have a look at
http://www.vrijmetselarij.nl/Ordesite/Paginas/AntwDoelVM/tabid/567/Default.aspx#1.3.
It seems to confirm that a belief in a Supreme Being is required. It's
hard to tell without a doubt because it's being translated (poorly,
sometimes), but the allusion is there.

Frats,
Larry

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by Larry W

Post by Chris Jacobs
Looks to me as if the Dutch Grootoosten does not require a belief in a Supreme Being?

Have a look at
http://www.vrijmetselarij.nl/Ordesite/Paginas/AntwDoelVM/tabid/567/Default.aspx#1.3.
It seems to confirm that a belief in a Supreme Being is required. It's
hard to tell without a doubt because it's being translated (poorly,
sometimes), but the allusion is there.

To me it seems to say that the text about the Opperbouwmeester is a text
from a rituaal, a fixed text comparable met e.g. the text 'how do you do?'
in a greeting.
http://www.vrijmetselarij.nl/Ordesite/Paginas/AntwRituelen_Symbolen/tabid/571/Default.aspx#2.1

Now, that kind of fixed text typically is not said for its meaning.

Post by Larry W
Frats,

?

I am not a mason.

Post by Larry W
Larry

Chris

[Bill M]

Chris Jacobs <***@zhaum.xs4all.nl> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Chris Jacobs
Looks to me as if the Dutch Grootoosten does not require a belief in a Supreme Being?
Chris

The Grand East of the Netherlands is in amity with (at least) the Grand
Lodges of Scotland, England and Ireland so I'd bet that it does. Have
you asked the question of the Grand East of the Netherlands?

Best,
Bill.

[unknown]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Jacobs" <***@zhaum.xs4all.nl>
Newsgroups: soc.org.freemasonry
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:10 PM
Subject: There is absolutely no restriction on the basis of belief, race,
source, social position or nationality.

Post by Chris Jacobs
{quote}
Kan iedereen lid worden van de Orde van Vrijmetselaren?
Het lidmaatschap staat open voor iedere vrije man van goede naam.
Dat laatste wil zeggen dat zijn reputatie geen aanleiding zal geven tot discussie.
Er is geen enkele beperking op grond van geloof, ras, afkomst,
maatschappelijke positie of nationaliteit.
Wel dient men de leeftijd van 18 jaar te hebben bereikt.
{/quote}
http://www.vrijmetselarij.nl/Ordesite/Paginas/AntwLidmaatschap/tabid/575/Default.aspx#4.1

Try using google translate - much better:-
"Can anyone become a member of the Order of Free Mets Laren [ie.
Freemasons]? Membership is open to every free man of good name [ie.
repute]. The latter means that his reputation will not give rise to
discussion. There is no restriction on grounds of religion, race, origin,
social status or nationality. However, the age of 18 years [must] have
[been] achieved. "

Post by Chris Jacobs
Looks to me as if the Dutch Grootoosten does not require a belief in a Supreme Being?

The Dutch lodges under the Grand East of the Netherlands which I visit all
have a VSL and obligate their candidates upon it - requiring therefore a
belief in a Supreme Being :-)

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by unknown
The Dutch lodges under the Grand East of the Netherlands which I visit all
have a VSL and obligate their candidates upon it - requiring therefore a
belief in a Supreme Being :-)

A VSL that can be interpreted differently :-)

How do you interpret it?

Volume of the Sacred Law? Volume of the secret law?
http://www.rgls.org/en/freemasonry/basic-principles.html

[Larry W]

Post by Chris Jacobs
A VSL that can be interpreted differently :-)
How do you interpret it?

I interpret them the same way, equally. Regardless which is placed upon the
Altar of Freemasonry in the position of Great Light, is symbolic of and
represents, for me, my VSL. It is a symbol in its purpose.

[Alex]

Post by Larry W

Post by Chris Jacobs
A VSL that can be interpreted differently :-)
How do you interpret it?

I interpret them the same way, equally. Regardless which is placed upon
the Altar of Freemasonry in the position of Great Light, is symbolic of
and
represents, for me, my VSL. It is a symbol in its purpose.

- From my side, there are a couple of possible (and equally valid) meanings,
and they're based on a homonym (spelled differently, sounds the same, means
something different.)

In this case, it is the "L"... Does it stand for "Law" or "Lore"? And if the
latter, does it really make any difference?
- --
Alex Fisher
Lodge Caledonian No. 14
United Grand Lodge of Queensland