hello

[DUSTIN PUTMAN]

hello i need some one to help me if they will i want to become a mason
in the scotish rite i live in Rutherfordton NC how do i join the masons
my 18th brithday is in august 27 of this month and i am very interested
in masonry and what are the requirments of joining cause my great grand
father was a mason

[Chris H]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
hello i need some one to help me if they will i want to become a mason
in the scotish rite i live in Rutherfordton NC how do i join the masons
my 18th brithday is in august 27 of this month and i am very interested
in masonry and what are the requirments of joining cause my great grand
father was a mason

Http://www.grandlodge-nc.org/main.htm

BTW you may find that the minimum age is 21.

However you should read this
http://www.grandlodge-nc.org/freemasonryrevealed/become.htm


http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=freemasons+lodges+Ru
therfordton+NC&fb=1&split=1&gl=uk&ei=Dh-FSvGfM6GsjAfpsaiiCw&sa=X&oi=loca
l_group&ct=image&resnum=1

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
hello i need some one to help me if they will i want to become a mason
in the scotish rite i live in Rutherfordton NC how do i join the masons
my 18th brithday is in august 27 of this month and i am very interested
in masonry and what are the requirments of joining cause my great grand
father was a mason

Google brings up these urls:

http://www.scottishrite.org/who/contact.html
http://www.ashevillescottishrite.org/blue.html

Undoubtly someone here can tell if these web pages are reliable.

[DUSTIN PUTMAN]

i saw on a website about masonry that it was 18 in NC it maybe has
chanced over the years

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
i saw on a website about masonry that it was 18 in NC it maybe has
chanced over the years

You wrote that you want to become "a mason in the scotish rite"

I saw on a website about masonry that
"Before you can join the Scottish Rite, you must first be a Master Mason
(3rddegree)."

URL?

[Larry]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
hello i need some one to help me if they will i want to become a mason

Mr. Putman,

Congratulations on taking the first step toward becoming a Mason. I have to
admit it was a bit difficult to find information regarding the process in
North Carolina, but I did discover that the minimum age there is eighteen
(as of the date you sign the petition).

The first thing I would do in your shoes is locate the Lodge nearest you and
then call its Master or Secretary. Baring that, you might want to send an
email to the Grand Secretary, Mr. T. Walton Clapp, at
***@grandlodge-nc.org; he can put you in touch with the closest and most
active Lodge.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey, Mr. Putman. I hope that you
find what you seek, and that you seek Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth.

Kind regards,
Larry

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by Larry
The first thing I would do in your shoes is locate the Lodge nearest you
and then call its Master or Secretary. Baring that, you might want to
send an email to the Grand Secretary, Mr. T. Walton Clapp, at
most active Lodge.

I guess the Lodge nearest to him would be

Western Star #91
329 S. Main St, Rutherfordton, NC 28139
() Phone
Website

What is a Western Star Lodge?

I see in Google there are several of them.

Western Star #2, #9, #21, #26, #91, #240 ...

I found a text which might shine some light on this, unfortunately it is in
German.

'Abendstern' means 'Western Star'.

[Chris H]

Post by Chris Jacobs

Post by Larry
The first thing I would do in your shoes is locate the Lodge nearest
you and then call its Master or Secretary. Baring that, you might
want to send an email to the Grand Secretary, Mr. T. Walton Clapp, at
most active Lodge.

I guess the Lodge nearest to him would be
Western Star #91
329 S. Main St, Rutherfordton, NC 28139
() Phone
Website

I had a look at the map and there seems to be a ring of lodges all
around where he lives yet none in that town... that seems strange.

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by Chris H
I had a look at the map and there seems to be a ring of lodges all
around where he lives yet none in that town... that seems strange.

I am not a mason, so I think I can say things you are not allowed to say.
On the other hand I don't have inside info, what I say may be utter
nonsense.
But let me give it a try:

NC has two Grand Lodges, a white one and a negro one.
http://www.masonicinfo.com/grandlodges.htm

NC has two different minimum ages, 18 and 21.

I think 18 is the minimum age for the negro lodges, 21 for the white lodges.

If I were him I would wait three more years till I had the legal age for the
white lodges,
and *THEN* decide if I wanted to join a white lodge or a negro one.


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
(MOD: Historical membership aside for the moment, we don't refer to them as "white" and "negro" Grand Lodges; they are "mainstream" and "Prince Hall" Lodges, either of which could be petitioned by persons of any color. -DV)

[Chris H]

haedsys.demon.co.uk...

Post by Chris H
I had a look at the map and there seems to be a ring of lodges all
around where he lives yet none in that town... that seems strange.

I am not a mason, so I think I can say things you are not allowed to say.

No, about the only things Masons can not say is the passwords, grips,
signs and tokens.

On the other hand I don't have inside info, what I say may be utter
nonsense.
NC has two Grand Lodges, a white one and a negro one.
http://www.masonicinfo.com/grandlodges.htm
NC has two different minimum ages, 18 and 21.
I think 18 is the minimum age for the negro lodges, 21 for the white lodges.
If I were him I would wait three more years till I had the legal age
for the white lodges,
and *THEN* decide if I wanted to join a white lodge or a negro one.

That are no such things as "white" lodges and "negro" lodges... just
Blue or Craft lodges.

However in the USA due to blatant racism (I was going to say "historic
racism but recent events in Georgia show otherwise) is some states non-
whites were not admitted. Initially started by Prince Hall with AFAIR a
warrant from a British Military Lodge there was a lodge of negroes. This
has spawned the Prince Hall Lodges that were historically predominantly
non white in the past. Now, and I think even in the past, the Prince
Hall lodges admit men of any colour or creed and many of their lodges
are mixed (as in the rest of the world where racism is not tolerated in
Freemasonry), if predominantly, for historical reasons, non-white.

However to the everlasting shame of Freemasonry globally some (mainly
"southern") lodges in the USA only admit white men. Though I believe the
majority of non-Prince Hall Lodges in the US do not have any overt
racism and admit any Man of good morals etc,*.

In my lodge the master Elect is an Indian (and brown) and a Hindu so the
VSL next season will be a Hindu book, unless a candidate requires
otherwise.


*Define good morals :-)

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Chris H

Post by Chris Jacobs
I am not a mason, so I think I can say things you are not allowed to say.

No, about the only things Masons can not say is the passwords, grips,
signs and tokens.

Exactly what is and isn't secret depends on the
jurisdiction and since most Masons don't know the exact
rules for their own jurisdiction they tend to be careful in
their discussions.

Also many jurisdictions in English speaking coutries forbid
inviting a man to join the Masons. A potential candidate
must ask for a petition. As Dustin Putman asked about
joining this restriction no longer matters in this case. It's
bizzare that I can't invite but my wife who isn't a Mason can
because those rules don't apply to her.

The topic of invitations has long interested me. Some
mainland European jurisdictions are invititational. I would
love to see their historical population statistics since the
switch from asking to being invited.

Post by Chris H
In my lodge the master Elect is an Indian (and brown) and a Hindu so the
VSL next season will be a Hindu book, unless a candidate requires
otherwise.

Interesting. Any idea which book? I've never read the Rig Veda.

Mr Putman,

To repeat what you've already been told - To join the Scottish
Rite you must already be a Master Mason. The Scottish Rite
does degrees 4-32 so you need to already have your degrees
1-3 before you can join the Scottish Rite. To become a Master
Mason you must join one of your local lodges that are called
"Craft lodges" or "Blue lodges". They do degrees 1-3 which
are called the craft degrees. To join a local lodge you need to
go to them and ask for a petition. There will be several of
these lodges in easy driving distance so go to a few and talk
to the members. They will be listed in the phone book and
their meeting nights will be posted on the door of their building.
Masonry runs on a clock that ticks month to month so please
view this as a journey to be enjoyed as you travel it.

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by Doug Freyburger
Mr Putman,
To repeat what you've already been told - To join the Scottish
Rite you must already be a Master Mason. The Scottish Rite
does degrees 4-32 so you need to already have your degrees
1-3 before you can join the Scottish Rite. To become a Master
Mason you must join one of your local lodges that are called
"Craft lodges" or "Blue lodges". They do degrees 1-3 which
are called the craft degrees. To join a local lodge you need to
go to them and ask for a petition. There will be several of
these lodges in easy driving distance so go to a few and talk
to the members. They will be listed in the phone book and
their meeting nights will be posted on the door of their building.
Masonry runs on a clock that ticks month to month so please
view this as a journey to be enjoyed as you travel it.

I want to add to that:

1) (already told)

| I guess the Lodge nearest to him would be

| Western Star #91
| 329 S. Main St, Rutherfordton, NC 28139
| () Phone
| Website

2)

I received an email from Kyle Kissmann stating that:

"The lodges we have listed [that is a.o. Western Star #91, CJ] are based on
data that was gathered in 2007."

3) I found a website with the times Western Star #91 meets, but this info
might be outdated :-)
http://remembercliffside.com/documents/pdfs/rutherford_1884.pdf

[Alex]

Post by Chris Jacobs

Post by Larry
The first thing I would do in your shoes is locate the Lodge nearest you
and then call its Master or Secretary. Baring that, you might want to
send an email to the Grand Secretary, Mr. T. Walton Clapp, at
most active Lodge.

I guess the Lodge nearest to him would be
Western Star #91
329 S. Main St, Rutherfordton, NC 28139
() Phone
Website
What is a Western Star Lodge?
I see in Google there are several of them.
Western Star #2, #9, #21, #26, #91, #240 ...
I found a text which might shine some light on this, unfortunately it is
in German.
http://youtu.be/o0aeutiyv-0
'Abendstern' means 'Western Star'.

Actually "Evening Star"...

[Larry]

Post by Chris Jacobs
I guess the Lodge nearest to him would be
Western Star #91
329 S. Main St, Rutherfordton, NC 28139

How interesting. I didn't see that when I did a search for Masonic Lodges
near Rutherfordton. The nearest I found was in Chesnee. The Grand Lodge of
NC doesn't list it, but Asheville Scottish Rite does. Interestingly,
Asheville SR doesn't list the 30-odd Lodges in the Spartanburg area. TO be
honest, I don't know which one is an accurate list, but for Mr. Putman I
suppose a quick run down to Main St near Industrial Park Way might shed some
light on what actually is there.

Post by Chris Jacobs
What is a Western Star Lodge?

Perhaps it has some basis in American history. I found a couple references
to Western Star, but nothing to explain the significance.

Larry

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by Larry

Post by Chris Jacobs
I guess the Lodge nearest to him would be
Western Star #91
329 S. Main St, Rutherfordton, NC 28139

How interesting. I didn't see that when I did a search for Masonic Lodges
near Rutherfordton. The nearest I found was in Chesnee. The Grand Lodge
of NC doesn't list it,

Maybe the copy of the list of the Grand Lodge of NC you have is inaccurate.
Another possibility is that Western Star #91 falls under another Grand
Lodge.

Could be this one:
M.W. Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina
and Jurisdictions, Inc.
315 E. Main Street (Mail to: PO Box 1507)
Durham, NC 27702-1507
[phone]
www.mwphglnc.com

[Larry]

Post by Chris Jacobs
Maybe the copy of the list of the Grand Lodge of NC you have is inaccurate.

It is possible that the list is inaccurate, but it isn't my list. I went to
the Grand Lodge's website and viewed their list.

I also went to Google Maps and looked at the location, but only saw what
appeared to be an industrial building and a service station.

Post by Chris Jacobs
Another possibility is that Western Star #91 falls under another Grand
Lodge.

The Prince Hall Grand Lodge website shows Western Star #9 in Spencer, and
seems to list Sunbeam Lodge #46 in Rutherford. The addresses listed appear
to be for the Master or Secretary, and the one listed for Sunbeam is all the
way over in Charlotte (a residence).

None of this may apply, though. Websites can be outdated or wrong,
telephone books may not contain listings for any of several reasons. The
best thing Mr. Putman can do is contact the Grand Lodge (or Prince Hall
Grand Lodge, if he prefers), and take his second step in Masonry.

I hope everyone's weekend is peaceful.

Larry

[DUSTIN PUTMAN]

i wonder if i made a phone call to the grand lodge would that help any?

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
i wonder if i made a phone call to the grand lodge would that help any?

While you don't know yet which Grand Lodge? I think it is better to call the
Scottish Rite instead.

Valley of Asheville
80 Broadway Ave
Asheville, NC 28801-2961
828-253-9911

http://www.ashevillescottishrite.org/contact.html

They should know where they have that Western Star #91 address from.

[Chris Jacobs]

Interestingly, Asheville SR doesn't list the 30-odd Lodges in the
Spartanburg area.

Asheville is NC, Spartanburg is SC.

http://www.ashevillescottishrite.org/blue.html
http://www.spartanburgafm.com/index.html

If you follow the SC link on the USA map on the Asheville website you find
at least one Lodge in Spartanburg:

Piedmont Lodge of Perfection
P.O. Box 5851
Spartanburg, SC 29304-5851

864-596-2050 ext. 105 O
http://www.srmason-sj.org/where/southeast.htm#southcarolina

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Chris Jacobs
What is a Western Star Lodge?

It's just a name that happens to be popular enough in the US
that many jurisdictions have a lodge with that name.

Perhaps it has some basis in American history.  I found a couple references
to Western Star, but nothing to explain the significance.
Larry
--
PM, Holbrook #30, AF&AM  | Forest Grove #37, RAM | Tualatin #31, OES
RP, Acacia #22, Amaranth | Sunset #20, Cryptic   | Dad, Hillsboro #24, IORG

I quoted Bro Larry's .signature file because I think it addresses
why the name "Western Star" is popular in the US. In the US
there is a concordant body named Order of the Eastern Star
that admits women. Many married couples become active in
US Masonry when husband and wife both join the Order.

I think the name "Western Star" is a form of symetry with the
name "Eastern Star" and that's why the name is popular in the
US.

Given the symbolic nature of Masonic teachings, the individual
personal nature of symbolic meanings, and the astronomical
reference of a Western Star as Venus/Mercury in the dawn
light - There are bound to be other symbolic meanings for the
term "Western Star" as well. But on the KISS principle of
Keep It Short and Simple I'm going with Eastern Star and
Western Star as a complementary pair of names.

Fraternal regards,
Doug Freyburger
PM 2007-8 Arlington Heights 1162 Illinois AF&AM currently Tiler
PM 1999 Pasadena 272 California F&AM

[Emma Pease]

On 2009-08-18, Doug Freyburger <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
...

Post by Doug Freyburger
Given the symbolic nature of Masonic teachings, the individual
personal nature of symbolic meanings, and the astronomical
reference of a Western Star as Venus/Mercury in the dawn
light - There are bound to be other symbolic meanings for the
term "Western Star" as well. But on the KISS principle of
Keep It Short and Simple I'm going with Eastern Star and
Western Star as a complementary pair of names.

Venus/Mercury in the evening light is western. Eastern would be them in
the dawn light. In Greek Hesperos and Phosphoros (or Latin, Hesperus and
Lucifer).

[DUSTIN PUTMAN]

thank you all for your help i have finaly got in contact with a lodge in
ruthfordton county
and i have got my application now. now i need to just get 100 dollars
and get two masons to sign it and it will be voted on later on

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
thank you all for your help i have finaly got in contact with a lodge in
ruthfordton county
and i have got my application now. now i need to just get 100 dollars
and get two masons to sign it and it will be voted on later on

Use Zimbabwe dollars, these are available at an even better rate than
Canadian ones!

Why do they want two masons to sign the dollars? Don't they trust the
governments?

[Larry]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
thank you all for your help i have finaly got in contact with a lodge in
ruthfordton county
and i have got my application now. now i need to just get 100 dollars
and get two masons to sign it and it will be voted on later on

Dustin,

Congratulations on taking your second step toward Masonry (you'll understand
when you receive your first lecture). Since you have made contact with the
Lodge, perhaps you can attend their social events and get to know some of
the Masons. It's possible, if the Lodge is nearby, that you already know at
least one member.

Best of luck on your continuing journey. Please keep us updated as regards
your initiation; those of us in the area might like to watch or even partake
in your degrees.

Kindest regards,
Larry

[Janet Wintermute]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
thank you all for your help i have finaly got in contact with a lodge in
ruthfordton county
and i have got my application now. now i need to just get 100 dollars
and get two masons to sign it and it will be voted on later on

Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

Please verify with the Grand Lodge in your State whether or not the
lodge in Ruthfordton County is, in fact, under that GL. There are bogus
masonries aplenty, and one characteristic many share is the "degree
mill" concept, whereby they charge a lot of money for what turn out to
be fake degrees.

In fact, I think any application fee at all is unusual. In the United
States, all lodges charge annual dues and a capitation fee (add-on of
some smaller denomination) that goes to Grand Lodge to support its
overhead. Many lodges charge a fee for taking each of the first three
degrees. But a fee to put in an application? Not standard practice.

If you join what turns out to be one of these fake organizations, you
may still find its work personally fulfilling. But when you want to
travel to visit other masons' lodges, you will not be admitted to their
meetings as a visitor if your own organization is not "regular" and
recognized by their Grand Lodge. To an outsider, this is a complicated
and mysterious system.

Earlier you mentioned that a relative (grandfather?) is/was a mason. If
he is still alive, please consult him about all this.

--Janet Wintermute
Master Mason, Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry
Atlanta Lodge No. 21
but living outside Washington, DC

[Tom Accuosti]

Post by Janet Wintermute
Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

Janet, one of my lodges just went to asking for a $200 fee. Their
reasoning is that this is what a candidate typically pays to cover Grand
Lodge fees and other lodge expenses during the course of one's three
degrees, and so they're taking the money up front. They also believe
that it helps to keep the candidate motivated to come back; we have
discovered that a certain percentage never return after their EA, and
their thinking is that paying an up-front fee will give them more
incentive to keep coming to meetings.

Yeah, yeah, I know - it would be better to think that we offer something
special enough to make them *want* to keep coming back. But that's
another discussion.
--
Tom Accuosti
www.masonictao.com

Exalted Keeper of the Secrets of Freemasonarianism
Grand Sovereign Pontiff and Secret Enquisitor
Ambassador to Zeta-Reticula

Crop Circle Planning & Zoning Commissioner
Aluminum Foil Beanie Fitting and Training Consultant
Team Osiris Obelisk Siting and Surveying
Manager, Dulces/Denver Airport Massage & Day Spa
Cydonia Vacation Resort Concierge

P.M., Friendship #33.3 AM & FM
Area 51, Atlantis

[Alan Schwartz]

Post by Tom Accuosti

Post by Janet Wintermute
Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

Janet, one of my lodges just went to asking for a $200 fee. Their
reasoning is that this is what a candidate typically pays to cover Grand
Lodge fees and other lodge expenses during the course of one's three
degrees, and so they're taking the money up front. They also believe
that it helps to keep the candidate motivated to come back; we have
discovered that a certain percentage never return after their EA, and
their thinking is that paying an up-front fee will give them more
incentive to keep coming to meetings.

My lodge has gone to doing this as well. The petitioner must
pay, up front, the fees for the three degrees and the first year's
dues (from which our capitation payment is made). The reasoning
is similar. Our total is $305, I think.

[Richard Watson]

It could be that the fee is for the degrees. In my home lodge, the fee is $35 per degree or a total of $105.
There fee goes toward the literature and paraphernalia that the man will receive as is pass throught he degrees. Our Grand Lodge states that the fee must be submitted with the petition and will be refunded if the applicant is rejected. We allow our candidates to pay just $35 for the EA and then pay the rest as the degrees are conferred.

Rich Watson, Treasurer
Kenton Lodge No 145
Portland, OR

-----Original Message-----
From: sof-mail-***@mail.cybermango.org [mailto:sof-mail-***@mail.cybermango.org] On Behalf Of Janet Wintermute
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:17 AM
To: sof-***@mail.cybermango.org
Subject: Re: [sof] hello

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
thank you all for your help i have finaly got in contact with a lodge in
ruthfordton county
and i have got my application now. now i need to just get 100 dollars
and get two masons to sign it and it will be voted on later on

Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

Please verify with the Grand Lodge in your State whether or not the
lodge in Ruthfordton County is, in fact, under that GL. There are bogus
masonries aplenty, and one characteristic many share is the "degree
mill" concept, whereby they charge a lot of money for what turn out to
be fake degrees.

In fact, I think any application fee at all is unusual. In the United
States, all lodges charge annual dues and a capitation fee (add-on of
some smaller denomination) that goes to Grand Lodge to support its
overhead. Many lodges charge a fee for taking each of the first three
degrees. But a fee to put in an application? Not standard practice.

If you join what turns out to be one of these fake organizations, you
may still find its work personally fulfilling. But when you want to
travel to visit other masons' lodges, you will not be admitted to their
meetings as a visitor if your own organization is not "regular" and
recognized by their Grand Lodge. To an outsider, this is a complicated
and mysterious system.

Earlier you mentioned that a relative (grandfather?) is/was a mason. If
he is still alive, please consult him about all this.

--Janet Wintermute
Master Mason, Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry
Atlanta Lodge No. 21
but living outside Washington, DC

[Larry]

Post by Janet Wintermute
Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

This amount varies widely, even within jurisdictions. My Lodge, for
example, charges $200.00 for the initiation fee and then $55.00 per year in
dues; my neighbor Lodge charges $100.00 and $25.00 respectively.

Our fee pays for, among other things, the candidate's apron and dues for the
current year.

Nice to see you again online, Janet. I mention you when the topic of Female
Masonry comes up. I hope you don't mind.

Regards,
Larry

[Janet Wintermute]

Post by Larry

Post by Janet Wintermute
Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very
unusual in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

This amount varies widely, even within jurisdictions. My Lodge, for
example, charges $200.00 for the initiation fee and then $55.00 per
year in dues; my neighbor Lodge charges $100.00 and $25.00 respectively.
Our fee pays for, among other things, the candidate's apron and dues
for the current year.
Nice to see you again online, Janet. I mention you when the topic of
Female Masonry comes up. I hope you don't mind.

Thanks for the kind words, Larry. You're welcome to refer folks to me
at any time for info on female and mixed-gender masonries.

I appreciate the further clarifications that are being posted in
response to Dustin's inquiry about joining the Craft. However, things
are getting mixed up and now would be a good time to straighten them
out. Dustin has been asked for an *application* fee of $100. This is
not a degree fee, not dues, and not capitation. Therefore, I
originally stated that what he's being asked for is extremely unusual
and may be a tipoff that he is unwittingly approaching a lodge in one of
the bogus masonries that abound in this country. A common
characteristic of the fake organizations is that they demand large
amounts of cash from applicants and degree candidates. These are often
profit-making cash cows for the egomaniacs who have set them up.

The subject of masonic finances is interesting in and of itself. I
propose to start a new thread where people just post the following. The
dollar figures here are for my Atlanta, Georgia, lodge. You plug in
your own figures when you reply.

Application fee: $0
First-degree fee: $0
Second-degree fee: $0
Third-degree fee: $0
Annual dues: $40
Capitation: Never mentioned to me and probably taken out of the $40 per
person per year

In the Eastern Order, you do have to pay for your own apron upon
receiving the Master Mason degree, and it's around $75.

Because we don't have lodge buildings to maintain, we don't need much
money. A nonmasonic organization with many crossover members lets us
rent their space for an extremely low price. The organization I
originally joined in 1999, the Ancient and Primitive Rite of
Memphis-Misraim, charges no application fee, varying amounts under $100
for each of the three degrees, about $150 a year dues, and no extra
capitation here in the United States. In Europe, M&M costs a great deal
more per year.

I'd like to see others from around the world supply their dollar figures
here in sof.

Masonry is a little like those MasterCard commercials. It's priceless.
The value, if you take it seriously and really invest yourself in the
processes of the rough ashlar, is incalculable. So, go Dustin! Just be
sure you know where you're going.

--Janet

[Bill M]

Post by Janet Wintermute
The subject of masonic finances is interesting in and of itself. I
propose to start a new thread where people just post the following. The
dollar figures here are for my Atlanta, Georgia, lodge. You plug in
your own figures when you reply.
Application fee: $0
First-degree fee: $0
Second-degree fee: $0
Third-degree fee: $0
Annual dues: $40
Capitation: Never mentioned to me and probably taken out of the $40 per
person per year

£1 = US$1.65 or thereabouts.

GL of Scotland specifies minimums, Lodges set their own fees above that
as they see fit.

Application fee : £0
First Degree fee : £200 ($330) (of which £120 goes to GL, £12 to PGL)
Second, £0
Third, £0
Annual dues £30 ($49.50), or £450 ($742.50) for life membership
Capitation fee paid by the Lodge to GL for each member, £16.60.

No need to buy an apron and baldrick, Lodge holds them for members and
visitors alike, but about £140 ($231) if required.

Best,
Bill M
RWM Aurora Borealis 1809, Portsoy, Scotland
.... and a shedload of other stuff too.

[Mudge]

Post by Bill M
No need to buy an apron and baldrick, Lodge holds them for members and
visitors alike, but about £140 ($231) if required.

My I ask - whatinhell is a "baldrick" except for being Blackadder's foil ???

[David Simpson]

Post by Mudge

Post by Bill M
No need to buy an apron and baldrick, Lodge holds them for members and
visitors alike, but about £140 ($231) if required.

My I ask - whatinhell is a "baldrick" except for being Blackadder's foil ???

Noun: baldrick, baldric
1. A wide (ornamented) belt worn over the right shoulder to support a
sword or bugle by the left hip

[WordWeb.info]

[Dave Vick]

May I ask - whatinhell is a "baldrick" except for being Blackadder's foil???

You might know it better by the name "sash."
<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/baldrick>

[Disproportionate Rabbit]

South Australia ($AUS, around $US0.80):

Application fee: $20
First-degree fee: $0
Second-degree fee: $0
Third-degree fee: $0
Annual dues: $150-250 depending on the Lodge. Dining Lodges can be much
more expensive.
Capitation: GL $100, taken from the Lodge dues

You buy your own apron on reaching the 3rd degree, costing around $150
new but Lodges often have used regalia for sale cheaply. We wear them at
all meetings; 1st and 2nd degree aprons are provided by the Lodge for
their own brethren and visitors. PMs are given a PM jewel or bar at the
end of their term. Paid life memberships are pretty well unheard of
here. Can't ever remember hearing of a Lodge which offerred them.

The other orders are generally around $50-$100 annual dues, $10-20
application fee, capitation between $20 and $50 usually and taken from
the Lodge fees and regalia is purchased by the member. All the other
orders (Mark, Mariners, Chapter, Royal and Select, KT etc) are under
separate Grand Lodges here so fees can add up quite significantly if you
are in many orders.


Dave Wallace
WM Woodville 125, PM Prospect 60 & Croydon 140
1st Principal Pt Adelaide Chapter No 5 (3rd time...)
Pt Adelaide Mark No 5
Scribe Pt Adelaide Mariners No 5

[Dave Vick]

All the other orders (Mark, Mariners, Chapter, Royal and Select,
KT etc) are under separate Grand Lodges here so fees can add
up quite significantly if you are in many orders.

The same is true here in the States.

[DUSTIN PUTMAN]

my great grandfather was a mason he has been died right after i was born

[Jim Bennie]

Post by Janet Wintermute
Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

At least one of my Lodges requires a deposit with the application and has
for many years. I know another used to because the old minutes refer to
returning deposits of rejected applicants.

Jim, Vancouver

[Dave Vick]

Post by Jim Bennie
At least one of my Lodges requires a deposit with the application and has
for many years.

Both of the Lodges I belong to do, too.

[Chris Jacobs]

Post by Janet Wintermute

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
thank you all for your help i have finaly got in contact with a lodge in
ruthfordton county
and i have got my application now. now i need to just get 100 dollars
and get two masons to sign it and it will be voted on later on

Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.

Well, that depends of what kind of $ it is.

I advise him to use Zimbabwe $, and to have phun

[David Simpson]

[Default] On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:20:41 CST, "Chris Jacobs"
<***@xs4all.nl> typed:

Note to Moderators. This poster is a troll. Please remove him from
posting rights.

[Alan Schwartz]

Post by David Simpson
Note to Moderators. This poster is a troll. Please remove him from
posting rights.

We generally don't make judgments on posters, but on posts.
We moderate each message for content.

- Alan, sof co-moderator

[Stuart H.]

Post by Janet Wintermute

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
thank you all for your help i have finaly got in contact with a lodge in
ruthfordton county
and i have got my application now. now i need to just get 100 dollars
and get two masons to sign it and it will be voted on later on

Dustin, the application fee of $100 is *extremely* high and very unusual
in masculine, mainstream masonry in the United States.
Please verify with the Grand Lodge in your State whether or not the
lodge in Ruthfordton County is, in fact, under that GL. There are bogus
masonries aplenty, and one characteristic many share is the "degree
mill" concept, whereby they charge a lot of money for what turn out to
be fake degrees.
In fact, I think any application fee at all is unusual. In the United
States, all lodges charge annual dues and a capitation fee (add-on of
some smaller denomination) that goes to Grand Lodge to support its
overhead. Many lodges charge a fee for taking each of the first three
degrees. But a fee to put in an application? Not standard practice.
If you join what turns out to be one of these fake organizations, you
may still find its work personally fulfilling. But when you want to
travel to visit other masons' lodges, you will not be admitted to their
meetings as a visitor if your own organization is not "regular" and
recognized by their Grand Lodge. To an outsider, this is a complicated
and mysterious system.
Earlier you mentioned that a relative (grandfather?) is/was a mason. If
he is still alive, please consult him about all this.
--Janet Wintermute
Master Mason, Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry
Atlanta Lodge No. 21
but living outside Washington, DC

The Lodge to which I belong operates under the regular GL in our
jurisdiction. Our initiation fee is CAN$254.00 plus prorated dues for
the balance of the year they join. Of course we consider an EA to be a
Mason with full voting rights in Lodge, and recently even approved EAs
and FCs for Masonic Funerals which were previous reserved for MMs.

The fee of $254 exactly covers the costs of registration with GL, MM
certificate after raising, MM apron, ritual book, Lodge Name badge, and
their copy of the Constitution and Bylaws. Of course, we, like UGLE
Lodges, actually wear our MM aprons whenever we sit in Lodge, or in the
case of PMs or higher, the apron of rank.

I would be very curious about what is included in the US$100 fee.

We do usually require that CAN$100 be submitted with the Application,
returnable if declined, and applied to the fees mentioned above when
collected prior to Initiation.

Stuart H.
PM and Treasurer
Baseline Lodge #198, Grand Registry of Alberta

[Mudge]

Post by Stuart H.
The Lodge to which I belong operates under the regular GL in our
jurisdiction. Our initiation fee is CAN$254.00 plus prorated dues for
the balance of the year they join. Of course we consider an EA to be a
Mason with full voting rights in Lodge, and recently even approved EAs
and FCs for Masonic Funerals which were previous reserved for MMs.
The fee of $254 exactly covers the costs of registration with GL, MM
certificate after raising, MM apron, ritual book, Lodge Name badge, and
their copy of the Constitution and Bylaws. Of course, we, like UGLE
Lodges, actually wear our MM aprons whenever we sit in Lodge, or in the
case of PMs or higher, the apron of rank.
I would be very curious about what is included in the US$100 fee.
We do usually require that CAN$100 be submitted with the Application,
returnable if declined, and applied to the fees mentioned above when
collected prior to Initiation.

You forgot to mention that most Lodges in this jurisdiction have annual
dues in excess of $100 (Canadian) - some Lodges give the over-65s a
break of maybe 10% !

[Stuart H.]

Post by Mudge

Post by Stuart H.
The Lodge to which I belong operates under the regular GL in our
jurisdiction. Our initiation fee is CAN$254.00 plus prorated dues for
the balance of the year they join. Of course we consider an EA to be
a Mason with full voting rights in Lodge, and recently even approved
EAs and FCs for Masonic Funerals which were previous reserved for MMs.
The fee of $254 exactly covers the costs of registration with GL, MM
certificate after raising, MM apron, ritual book, Lodge Name badge,
and their copy of the Constitution and Bylaws. Of course, we, like
UGLE Lodges, actually wear our MM aprons whenever we sit in Lodge, or
in the case of PMs or higher, the apron of rank.
I would be very curious about what is included in the US$100 fee.
We do usually require that CAN$100 be submitted with the Application,
returnable if declined, and applied to the fees mentioned above when
collected prior to Initiation.

You forgot to mention that most Lodges in this jurisdiction have annual
dues in excess of $100 (Canadian) - some Lodges give the over-65s a
break of maybe 10% !

Yes, I did not mention the amount, only that they are prorated for
candidates. Ours are $130.00 with a discount of $10.00 if paid by
January 31st.

No break for us "elders".

Stuart H.

[John W]

Post by Mudge

Post by Stuart H.
The Lodge to which I belong operates under the regular GL in our
jurisdiction. Our initiation fee is CAN$254.00 plus prorated dues for
the balance of the year they join. Of course we consider an EA to be
a Mason with full voting rights in Lodge, and recently even approved
EAs and FCs for Masonic Funerals which were previous reserved for MMs.
The fee of $254 exactly covers the costs of registration with GL, MM
certificate after raising, MM apron, ritual book, Lodge Name badge,
and their copy of the Constitution and Bylaws. Of course, we, like
UGLE Lodges, actually wear our MM aprons whenever we sit in Lodge, or
in the case of PMs or higher, the apron of rank.
I would be very curious about what is included in the US$100 fee.
We do usually require that CAN$100 be submitted with the Application,
returnable if declined, and applied to the fees mentioned above when
collected prior to Initiation.

You forgot to mention that most Lodges in this jurisdiction have annual
dues in excess of $100 (Canadian) - some Lodges give the over-65s a
break of maybe 10% !

Brian that does not sound too bad my annual fee is £120 approx C$ 215,
we also used to have a reduced fee for over 65's, but it was pointed out
that it was against the Constitution which state that all members must
pay the same amount. As an aside the over 65's reduction was aborted the
year I reached that milestone, just my luck.

John
Neyland Lodge 990
UGLE

[Mudge]

Post by John W
Brian that does not sound too bad my annual fee is £120 approx C$ 215,
we also used to have a reduced fee for over 65's, but it was pointed
out that it was against the Constitution which state that all members
must pay the same amount. As an aside the over 65's reduction was
aborted the year I reached that milestone, just my luck.

I have always said we sell the Craft far too cheaply. My initiation
fee (a bit over 50 years ago) was $125 and it is still about that - at
the time my dues were $12 per year., If the initiation fee had been
increased on the same basis as dues it would now be about $1,250 - or
if you use house prices - $2,500+

In any case we sell the craft very cheaply these days !

[David Simpson]

[Default] On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:24:49 CST, Doug Freyburger

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Chris Jacobs
What is a Western Star Lodge?

It's just a name that happens to be popular enough in the US
that many jurisdictions have a lodge with that name.

Perhaps it has some basis in American history.  I found a couple references
to Western Star, but nothing to explain the significance.
Larry
--
PM, Holbrook #30, AF&AM  | Forest Grove #37, RAM | Tualatin #31, OES
RP, Acacia #22, Amaranth | Sunset #20, Cryptic   | Dad, Hillsboro #24, IORG

I quoted Bro Larry's .signature file because I think it addresses
why the name "Western Star" is popular in the US. In the US
there is a concordant body named Order of the Eastern Star
that admits women. Many married couples become active in
US Masonry when husband and wife both join the Order.
I think the name "Western Star" is a form of symetry with the
name "Eastern Star" and that's why the name is popular in the
US.
Given the symbolic nature of Masonic teachings, the individual
personal nature of symbolic meanings, and the astronomical
reference of a Western Star as Venus/Mercury in the dawn
light -

Sorry but the dawn would show those planets in the east not the west.
To see them in the west it would need to be sunset.

[Dave Vick]

Post by DUSTIN PUTMAN
hello i need some one to help me if they will i want to become a mason
in the scotish rite i live in Rutherfordton NC how do i join the masons
my 18th brithday is in august 27 of this month and i am very interested
in masonry and what are the requirments of joining cause my great grand
father was a mason

Your best bet would be to meet some Masons in your own community and
talk to them about joining. Or you might find a Lodge near you, contact
their Secretary and/or Worshipful Master, and get to know the members.
I don't know if Rutherfordton has a Lodge; it appears that the closest
Lodges to you are in either Marion or Hendersonville. Or maybe
Spartanburg?

Anyway, take a look at the web site of the Grand Lodge of N. Carolina,
at <http://www.grandlodge-nc.org>. There is some good information there,
under the "Freemasonry Revealed" links, that might give you an idea of
which direction to follow.

Best of luck on your quest,