Discussion:
How Many Candidates at One Time?
(too old to reply)
Larry W
2009-05-29 21:41:34 UTC
Permalink
I know that this differs in other Grand Jurisdictions and wondered how
many of you are allowed to obligate more then one candidate at a time?
Oregon stipulates a maximum of five, but only one at a time until the
lecture and charge. Seeing as those are generally the quickest bits of our
degrees, we rarely try to schedule more than two at a time. I personally
would rather confer degrees two or three nights a week than try to fit them
all into a single long evening.

S&F
Larry
--
PM, Holbrook #30, AF&AM | Forest Grove #37, RAM | Tualatin #31, OES
RP, Acacia #22, Amaranth | Sunset #20, Cryptic | Dad, Hillsboro #24, IORG
Alex
2009-05-31 23:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Five is the number for a quorum now in Illinois.
That's why I love to see the differences in the ritual from Grand
Jurisdiction to Grand Jurisdiction. In the opening and closing of
Lodges here in NY, the question asked is; "How many compose a Master
Mason Lodge?" The response is; "Three or more."
The answer to that question ion Queensland (and I believe England, at least
for the Emulation ritual) is seven. the person giving that answer then
proceeds to name the officers required.
We have a full line of
officers, but I do remember times, years ago, when we opened with only
five and boy, did I do a lot of running, from chair to chair to
complete the required ritual.
George K.
- --
Alex Fisher
Lodge Caledonian No. 14
United Grand Lodge of Queensland
Brian K.Lingard
2009-06-02 03:54:36 UTC
Permalink
Here in Ontario I don't know of any maximum number of candidates for a
degree, but more than three or four for the Third Degree would make for an
incredibly long evening.

Brian Lingard
***@ncf.ca
Mark
2009-06-02 16:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Brian
Post by Brian K.Lingard
Here in Ontario I don't know of any maximum number of candidates for a
degree, but more than three or four for the Third Degree would make for an
incredibly long evening.
Brian Lingard
Mark
2009-06-02 16:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian K.Lingard
Here in Ontario I don't know of any maximum number of candidates for a
degree, but more than three or four for the Third Degree would make for an
incredibly long evening.
Brian Lingard
Brian,
In Ontario the maximum is 5 candidates, any more requires dispensation from
the GM. Even 2 Thirds makes for a long night. When doing multiply degrees,
the event may be made shorter by proving proficiencies at a previous
meeting.
Mark Drew.
Jeffry Petersen
2009-06-04 23:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Here in NY, our Grand Lodge Constitutions allow more then one
candidate at a time to take the three degrees, however, in the third,
each FC must be raised individually. In addition, when more then 5 are
taking a degree at the same time, a dispensation from the GM is
required. These dispensations always state that no more then 5 can be
obligated, at the altar, at one time.
This past Wednesday, we had the pleasure of raising 8 brothers. Six
from our lodge and two from another (one being a serviceman who was
home on 2 weeks leave and was raised by his father). We had to bring
them in in two groups, and did the work, from "ascertain" through the
obligation for each group of 4. Then we proceeded with all 8 for the
completion of the first section. They came out individually for the
raising and then all joined in the historical drama and for the third
section of the Degree.
I know that this differs in other Grand Jurisdictions and wondered how
many of you are allowed to obligate more then one candidate at a time?
In my lodge, we are allowed to raise five.
Typically, we use the short form on the first
four, then, have them sit and watch the others
come in.. until the fifth one. Then we continue
with the long form on the last person... allowing
the first four (or whatever the number is) to watch
the fifth person be raised with the long form.
Tom Accuosti
2009-06-10 14:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Here in NY, our Grand Lodge Constitutions allow more then one
candidate at a time to take the three degrees, however, in the third,
each FC must be raised individually. In addition, when more then 5 are
taking a degree at the same time, a dispensation from the GM is
required. These dispensations always state that no more then 5 can be
obligated, at the altar, at one time.
[...]
I know that this differs in other Grand Jurisdictions and wondered how
many of you are allowed to obligate more then one candidate at a time?
In Connecticut, the limit is 5. Rarely will a GM give dispensation to do
more.

However... There have been a few times that I've seen a lodge do four or
five MMs up to a particular section of the degree, and then bring them
to another lodge that has done four or five. This way, the dramatic
section is enhanced because there are more "cast members" to do the
work. Afterwards, the lectures and charges are given to all.
--
Tom Accuosti
www.masonictao.com

Exalted Keeper of the Secrets of Freemasonarianism
Grand Sovereign Pontiff and Secret Enquisitor
Ambassador to Zeta-Reticula

Crop Circle Planning & Zoning Commissioner
Aluminum Foil Beanie Fitting and Training Consultant
Team Osiris Obelisk Siting and Surveying
Manager, Dulces/Denver Airport Massage & Day Spa
Cydonia Vacation Resort Concierge

P.M., Friendship #33.3 AM & FM
Area 51, Atlantis
Torence
2009-06-03 13:39:54 UTC
Permalink
From: Doug Freyburger <***@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:02:32 CST
Doing group degrees works as plenty of officers in lines across many
grand jurisdictions are now graduates of multiple degrees, so
objections to the process are a self imposed internal
limitation.
Good line of reasoning; but I wonder if that point is only a
rationalization. In FreeMasonry, degrees…and obligations… are
administered not chosen. When at one of these classes or festivals,
the question should be asked whether the candidate was ever given a
choice, or if the lodge decided for them. As for these officers, I
wonder how many of them regret how their degree was handled; and how
many instead think that all degrees should be done as multiples.
If any festival Masons participate in this newsgroup, then perhaps
they could write to the point.
It's interesting that in a previous time when Masonry was so popular many degrees
were needed, so many grand jurisdictions faced the same problem and came to such a
different answer. They still needed multiple degrees so they decided that lodges
could in fact confer multiple degrees.
FYI: About thirty-five years ago, my lodge was doing 35-45 degrees
per year.
The process was defined differently jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Whatever the choreography, I would prefer that the Grand Lecturers,
if Masonry is going to keep them, recommend how MCDs (Multiple
Candidate Degrees) are to be done, rather than try to direct the
process. Over the years, various Boards of Grand Examiners either put
the blinders on as if multiple candidate degrees do not exist; and in
another year another Board will attempt to dictate the slightest
nuance.
Of course, I think that the Books of Standard Work and Ceremonials
should never be treated as anything other than a strong suggestion.
Grand Lines continue to foster an antiquated desire to retain
totalitarian control over the work.
It's almost like grand lines in state after state aren't even aware of their own policies
with regard to multiple degrees.
The Brother Gentlemen who graduate to the Grand Line, at least here
in Illinois and in our lifetime, are the products of strained mandate.
When Illinois went from having itinerant Grand Lecturers selected by
the Grand Lodge Congress to a Grand Lecturer and District Deputy
System (1869-1873) selected by each newly elected Grand Master the
promise was made that neither organization would ever serve as a
college for Grand Line Officers. There is nothing about serving on the
Board, even as Chairman, that would necessarily educate an aspirant as
to our history, Masonic jurisprudence etc. Recently, having heard this
complaint, a vetting process has been added so that as a Grand Line
aspirant travels up the chairs he will at least be posted to the
various committees etc. such as the charities. I think that process
helps; but the best GMs are the ones who acquire their experience via
three distinct, hard knocks.
In my humble opinion, genuine progress would be realized if we
returned to electing, at least occasionally, a Grand Line Officer
directly from the Principle Local Lodge Officers, avoiding candidates
who are too embroiled in the Rites or some of these other more
politically actuated clubs among us.
The limit in this generation seems to be the candidates' willingness to show up as
scheduled.
I put the blame for this travesty directly on the first line
signers. A candidate, particularly for his first degree, has no idea
of the work needed to organize the event. The FLS does and should do
his duty not only to see that the candidate is at the lodge at the
appointed hour; but he should be there for the degree as well.
I think it's the advance scheduling and the deadline that matters the most.
Excellent point…If Lodge Masters told candidates at the end of each
degree that they are to be ready for their next by such and such date,
they are aiding the mentor to set a proper tone for instruction.
In century old books I've read complaints that lodges were becoming degree mills and
the real Masonic activities were getting lost. Whatever those activities were, we need
more of them. I don't even know what they were!
I have some inkling. Trials were regular Masonic events, for
example. I would like to see Local Lodges do Mock Trials from some of
the more notable cases such as the Crum case from Vienna Lodge, The
Aldrich case from Warsaw Lodge, the Robbins case from Bodley Lodge
etc. I would image that other jurisdictions have had some interesting
tests that would be illuminating to revisit.

Fraternally,
Torence Evans Ake
Senior Deacon – Auburn Park Lodge No. 789 – Crete, Illinois
PM – Arcadia Lodge No. 1138 – Lansing, Illinois
Chris Hansen
2009-07-10 23:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Here in NY, our Grand Lodge Constitutions allow more then one
candidate at a time to take the three degrees, however, in the third,
each FC must be raised individually. In addition, when more then 5 are
taking a degree at the same time, a dispensation from the GM is
required. These dispensations always state that no more then 5 can be
obligated, at the altar, at one time.
This past Wednesday, we had the pleasure of raising 8 brothers. Six
from our lodge and two from another (one being a serviceman who was
home on 2 weeks leave and was raised by his father). We had to bring
them in in two groups, and did the work, from "ascertain" through the
obligation for each group of 4. Then we proceeded with all 8 for the
completion of the first section. They came out individually for the
raising and then all joined in the historical drama and for the third
section of the Degree.
I know that this differs in other Grand Jurisdictions and wondered how
many of you are allowed to obligate more then one candidate at a time?
In my UGLE lodge, we normally do only one candidate at a time these days. When
I was initiated, passed, and raised, I was a so-called "Masonic Twin" as it
was a double ceremony. We had one other set of Masonic Twins after us.

The logistics of towing the candidates around the Lodge and the Wardens
challenging them are such that doing more than two at a time is difficult if
not impossible.

When a double-raising is performed each candidate is raised individually but
simultaneously.

In my Massachusetts lodge, we have had up to 6 candidates raised at one time.
The way it's done is that the first part of the ceremony is done communally.
After dinner, each man is raised individually using the Short Form, except for
the last one, who is raised using the Long Form so that all the new MMs can
see or experience that more expansive ceremony for themselves.

Last time I was there for a raising we did 5 and it took until 11:15 pm to do
the entire thing. We were happy but exhausted.
--
Bro. Chris Hansen MM | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com
Goliath Lodge #5595 | http://www.christianphansen.com or
London | http://www.livejournal.com/users/chrishansenhome/
Philanthropic Lodge | http://www.goliathlodge.org.uk
F&AM, Marblehead MA
Offramp
2009-07-16 23:30:45 UTC
Permalink
I have seen four doubles (2x1, 2x2) and they have all been pretty
dismal. A year later these Lodges are complaining about having no work
to do.

Loading...