Discussion:
Including Masonic info on resume
(too old to reply)
Norman T. Eisengart
2004-10-27 19:59:47 UTC
Permalink
What do you all think of this?

Acceptable practice or Not?

Thanks,
Norm
Jack Wise
2004-10-27 20:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Thanks,
Norm
Some Jurisdictions have laws prohibiting the use of Masonry in securing
employment. In most cases, it would be considered in bad taste to use
Masonic connections for private gain.

If the qualifications for the job were such that Masonic experience was
germain it probably would not be out of line. As an example, if the
work involved heading a volunteer organization, then have been the
Master of the Lodge or Grand Master of a Grand Lodge might be considered
legitimate qualifications and not unreasonable to list as a qualifing
experience.
--
Jack Wise

Secretary, Oak Wood Lodge No. 1444, AF & AM, The Woodlands, TX
(www.txmason.com)

PM, Chaplain, Jacques DeMolay Lodge No. 1390, AF & AM, Houston, TX
( www.jd1390.org/jdmlodge.htm )

TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Okieraven
2004-10-27 22:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Wise
TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Wine sounds wonderful, I would trade a red or white Oklahoma wine of your
choice.

I would not put Masonic info on a modern resume but did do so 20 years ago.
Today's resumes should be one page bullets.... we no longer have time to read
about all your memberships, military history ect. What we once thought was
important info on the 2nd and 3rd page of the application is now extra and will
get your resume filed in the trash can. If I make it to an interview I hope my
P/M ring does not anger the interviewer. But if it does, I don't want to work
for that outfit anyway. If you are sitting on the other side of the interview
desk you must be very careful about hireing a brother. If he does not come up
to your expectations it is hard to can a Brother.

Glenn E. Barker 32/PM
Jack Wise
2004-10-27 22:23:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Okieraven
Post by Jack Wise
TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Wine sounds wonderful, I would trade a red or white Oklahoma wine of your
choice.
I would not presume to tell a wine conneseur the best wine; I would
however recommend you visit the following web site: www.messinahof.com

Messina Hof is one of the better (perhaps the best) Texas Winery.
--
Jack Wise

Secretary, Oak Wood Lodge No. 1444, AF & AM, The Woodlands, TX
(www.txmason.com)

PM, Chaplain, Jacques DeMolay Lodge No. 1390, AF & AM, Houston, TX
( www.jd1390.org/jdmlodge.htm )

TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Jim Stewart
2004-10-28 14:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
Post by Jack Wise
TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Wine sounds wonderful, I would trade a red or white Oklahoma wine of
your
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
choice.
I would not presume to tell a wine conneseur the best wine; I would
however recommend you visit the following web site: www.messinahof.com
Messina Hof is one of the better (perhaps the best) Texas Winery.
Have you tried the port or the sherry. I usually have some sent up for the
holidays.
(I went to school in College Station)

Jim Stewart
Illinois
Jack Wise
2004-10-28 15:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Stewart
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
Post by Jack Wise
TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Wine sounds wonderful, I would trade a red or white Oklahoma wine of
your
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
choice.
I would not presume to tell a wine conneseur the best wine; I would
however recommend you visit the following web site: www.messinahof.com
Messina Hof is one of the better (perhaps the best) Texas Winery.
Have you tried the port or the sherry. I usually have some sent up for the
holidays.
(I went to school in College Station)
Jim Stewart
Illinois
Both the port and the sherry are excellent.

Since it is more than 5 years after graduation, are you called "Boss" or
"Sir"?

Insiders note: The school at College Station is Texas A & M, a
university of some note and the graduates are subject to many jokes
about their intelligence (if any). Real life demonstrates that the
Graduates have well rebutted the presumption of a lack of intelligent
life at the school!
--
Jack Wise

Secretary, Oak Wood Lodge No. 1444, AF & AM, The Woodlands, TX
(www.txmason.com)

PM, Chaplain, Jacques DeMolay Lodge No. 1390, AF & AM, Houston, TX
( www.jd1390.org/jdmlodge.htm )

TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Jim Stewart
2004-10-29 12:41:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Jim Stewart
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
Post by Jack Wise
TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Wine sounds wonderful, I would trade a red or white Oklahoma wine of
your
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
choice.
I would not presume to tell a wine conneseur the best wine; I would
however recommend you visit the following web site: www.messinahof.com
Messina Hof is one of the better (perhaps the best) Texas Winery.
Have you tried the port or the sherry. I usually have some sent up for the
holidays.
(I went to school in College Station)
Jim Stewart
Illinois
Both the port and the sherry are excellent.
Since it is more than 5 years after graduation, are you called "Boss" or
"Sir"?
Insiders note: The school at College Station is Texas A & M, a
university of some note and the graduates are subject to many jokes
about their intelligence (if any). Real life demonstrates that the
Graduates have well rebutted the presumption of a lack of intelligent
life at the school!
I think the medals of honor speak for themselves. Some have a student union
we have a memorial hall. The largest collection in any university.

My title now is "Professor" I completed my PhD in Engineering 15 years ago.
Since we are looking around to retire, (I turned 65 last month) you may be
calling
me Bro. if the wife and I come south.


Jim Stewart
Dale Glover
2004-10-29 16:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Stewart
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Jim Stewart
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
Post by Jack Wise
TEXAS red wine: renowned for its smoky-mesquite-bbq & jalapeno
overtones, the perfect foil for a meal of tacos and refried beans...
Wine sounds wonderful, I would trade a red or white Oklahoma wine of
your
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Okieraven
choice.
I would not presume to tell a wine conneseur the best wine; I would
however recommend you visit the following web site: www.messinahof.com
Messina Hof is one of the better (perhaps the best) Texas Winery.
Have you tried the port or the sherry. I usually have some sent up for
the
Post by Jack Wise
Post by Jim Stewart
holidays.
(I went to school in College Station)
Jim Stewart
Illinois
Both the port and the sherry are excellent.
Since it is more than 5 years after graduation, are you called "Boss" or
"Sir"?
Insiders note: The school at College Station is Texas A & M, a
university of some note and the graduates are subject to many jokes
about their intelligence (if any). Real life demonstrates that the
Graduates have well rebutted the presumption of a lack of intelligent
life at the school!
I think the medals of honor speak for themselves. Some have a student union
we have a memorial hall. The largest collection in any university.
My title now is "Professor" I completed my PhD in Engineering 15 years ago.
Since we are looking around to retire, (I turned 65 last month) you may be
calling
me Bro. if the wife and I come south.
Jim Stewart
Check out the Blue Ridge Mntns. of NC, specifically Banner Elk where I live.
This is a beautiful area with plenty to do - skiing, hiking, cultural
programs (ASU located in Boone 17 miles away) and a small 4-year college in
Banner Elk. This is a resort area and so has many activities. If you think
you might be interested I'll send you some info.

Dale Glover
Cranberry # 598 AF&AM
Lenoir Chapter No. 73 R.A.M.
Council No. 38 R. & S.M.
Commandery No. 33 K.T.
KIV11
2004-10-27 20:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Including Masonic info on resume
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Depends on what the resume is for. Is it intended that the resume include
community service or charitable work?

George K.
Don Wagner
2004-10-27 22:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
I sure wouldn't do it. I don't mention any of my non-profit work
either.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Brian K.Lingard
2004-10-28 14:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Ottawa Canada

I wouldn't put an explicit reference to being a mason on my resume or job
application, but I suppose if they ask for interests you could just list
"The Craft" and leave it at that.

My former boss mentioned she had various job prospects give her masonic
handshakes and often found doodles of a square and compasses on answer
sheets for screening or aptitude exams.

Considering how lodge and Demolay membership are these days, it is really
hard to believe everyone subtly doodling squares and compasses on their
answer sheets or giving masonic handshakes to women are actual masons.

On my e-mail profile at work I listed The Craft as one of my interests but
never received e-mail or a phone call from a fellow mason who had noticed
my profile.

Brian M.M.
The Builders, #177 G.L. of C. in the Province of Ontario

Don Wagner
Post by Don Wagner
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
I sure wouldn't do it. I don't mention any of my non-profit work
either.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
JB
2004-10-27 22:48:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Thanks,
Norm
I would think it's not acceptable. It's too much like using your
Masonic connections.
Larry
2004-10-28 04:07:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Thanks,
Norm
I don't think it is a good idea unless it's related to the position to
which one applies for. One example I can think of is being Secretary
and applying for some admin position.

Larry
Jim Bennie
2004-10-28 09:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Norm, I don't know why it'd be relevant, any more than my membership
in SABR would be. It has nothing to do with the industry I work in.
The last time I needed a resume (a number of years ago now), I simply
listed my professional qualifications.

Jim Bennie
PM/DC, No. 44, Vancouver
David Foster
2004-10-28 14:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Brother Norm,
I see you've got several responses to your question, so fwiw, here's my
thoughts. I have mentioned my masonic affiliation on resumes in the
past, but only briefly, and only then in a paragraph headed Community
Activities. I simply listed Church, Boy Scouts, Lions Club, Masons.
But I didn't elaborate on any of them. I feel like some employers want
to know if the potential employee is a community minded individual.

David Foster
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Thanks,
Norm
Balboos
2004-10-28 14:19:16 UTC
Permalink
As my district's Public Relations Liaison for the last couple of years,
I'd advise against it.

My experience has shown that there's a silent undercurrent of
anti-Masonic feeling stitched throughout the fabric of society: Even
our blood drive, offering free dinners to donors, submitted well within
the periodical's deadlines, never seem to make it into print. Others
organization's submissions do, along with far less significant
announcements - but not Masonry.

There's no shortage of ugly reality. A generic resume, with respect to
anything controversial (religion, politics, race, etc.) is not only
recommended, but I could argue, a preferred information content.

Steve Miller
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Thanks,
Norm
Richard White
2004-10-30 03:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Totally unacceptable.

It could be construed as attempting to use membership to gain advantage.

What relevance does Freemasonry have to how well you would perform your job? Or your membership of
any other private society for that matter?

S & F regards,

Richard White
WM Addington Lodge No. 5080
PM Old Olavians Lodge No. 5758

http://surreymason.org.uk |
http://surreymark.org.uk | http://mastermason.com/old-olavians-lodge/
SurreyMason and SurreyMark | Please visit us and sign the guest book

Opinions & Facts/Information expressed in my posts, except where otherwise stated, are my own
personal opinions & understanding of facts/information respectively: they are not those of, and
should not be considered associated with, any of the masonic Orders of which I am a member.
r.bartlett
2004-10-31 02:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard White
Totally unacceptable.
It could be construed as attempting to use membership to gain advantage.
What relevance does Freemasonry have to how well you would perform your
job? Or your membership of
Post by Richard White
any other private society for that matter?
S & F regards,
Richard White
WM Addington Lodge No. 5080
PM Old Olavians Lodge No. 5758
Firstly from a personal point no one at my work knows of my FM and indeed my
family -Mother +siblings- only know because an Uncle 'let slip' .

Therefore I would never ever put such a thing on my C.V . However I assume
if an employer wanted to know then at the interview he would allude to a
catch phrase and see if he hooks a fish.

I also assume you must be good enough to get an interview too as I really
can't see an employer saying " well this guy sounds totally unsuited-
qualifications, experience, history wise etc but hey he's on the square lets
get him in "

As an aside to this-

Operative FM's -we are taught- introduced s...t.. and p..s etc allegedly to
keep the work to themselves..why/when did speculative renounce this?

S&F

Richard
Dave Vick
2004-10-31 05:20:27 UTC
Permalink
It occurs to me that perhaps some folks are getting résumés and CVs
mixed up... There is some info that could be included if so desired on
a CV would be totally out of place on a real business résumé.

My wife has some vague Masonic reference on her CV ("planning events for
Masonic organizations"), which in fact helped her get her current
position as executive administrator of a local Rotary Club chapter.

I guess it depends on what document you're actually generating, and what
the desired position is you're fishing for.

-Dave
Co-moderator
--
S&F,
Dave Vick, SW
Lansing (Michigan, USA) Lodge #33, F&AM
(...and a lot of other stuff)
David Hicks
2004-10-31 12:55:27 UTC
Permalink
Interesting Dave

Please tell, what you consider to be the difference. On this side of the
pond, resume and CV are one and the same. ( well to me anyway )

However, if these are different in your part of the world, it could account
for the difference of opinion, especially in the other thread.

Regards

David


These colloqueial phrases are interesting. I come from Buckinghamshire in
the UK where " nipper" means a child of any sex.. When I moved to
Southampton, " nipper" refered to a boy only with " Liitle 'un" meaning
girl. They also call the edge of a roof verge, where I usually call it
Barge ( well I use both now to be honest ) and we are only a 100 miles
apart.
Dave Vick
2004-10-31 14:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Hicks
Please tell, what you consider to be the difference. On this side of the
pond, resume and CV are one and the same. ( well to me anyway )
Where I come from, a résumé is pretty much strictly a bullet-point
history of your education and work experience, whereas a CV has more
outside information added, to round out your life-on-paper.

Your résumé could be considered the "Reader's Digest Condensed Version"
of your CV, I suppose.

-Dave
Co-moderator
--
S&F,
Dave Vick, SW
Lansing (Michigan, USA) Lodge #33, F&AM
(...and a lot of other stuff)
Alan Schwartz
2004-11-01 03:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Vick
Post by David Hicks
Please tell, what you consider to be the difference. On this side of the
pond, resume and CV are one and the same. ( well to me anyway )
Where I come from, a résumé is pretty much strictly a bullet-point
history of your education and work experience, whereas a CV has more
outside information added, to round out your life-on-paper.
And in the world of academia, a CV (we don't use resumes) is a highly
detailed (some run to 20 pages) listing of degrees, publications,
presentations, professional service, awards, and research funding,
while a "biosketch" is a short (2-4 page) precis of the same.
In my field, one would never list any social organizations on either.

- Alan (associate professor of medical education)
--
Alan Schwartz, PM
Treasurer, Berwyn Lodge #839, A.F. & A.M., Berwyn, Illinois, USA
32nd deg. Scottish Rite Mason, Valley of Chicago, AASR (NJ)
Jim Stewart
2004-11-01 12:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Schwartz
Post by Dave Vick
Post by David Hicks
Please tell, what you consider to be the difference. On this side of the
pond, resume and CV are one and the same. ( well to me anyway )
Where I come from, a résumé is pretty much strictly a bullet-point
history of your education and work experience, whereas a CV has more
outside information added, to round out your life-on-paper.
And in the world of academia, a CV (we don't use resumes) is a highly
detailed (some run to 20 pages) listing of degrees, publications,
presentations, professional service, awards, and research funding,
while a "biosketch" is a short (2-4 page) precis of the same.
In my field, one would never list any social organizations on either.
- Alan (associate professor of medical education)
We turn our annual report to the state saying how we used our time
this includes teaching, research, and service. One small part of service
includes community activities. But on a CV? No, they want to see what
you have published.

Jim Stewart (associate professor of technology)
Alex
2004-11-01 04:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Vick
Post by David Hicks
Please tell, what you consider to be the difference. On this side of the
pond, resume and CV are one and the same. ( well to me anyway )
Where I come from, a résumé is pretty much strictly a bullet-point
history of your education and work experience, whereas a CV has more
outside information added, to round out your life-on-paper.
Your résumé could be considered the "Reader's Digest Condensed Version"
of your CV, I suppose.
-Dave
Co-moderator
Or, a resume of your Curriculum Vitae... Which is of course why it is called a
resume :)

A full CV should contain all your activities, education, entire employment
history, all fully detailed (example: under Education, you would list each and
every year you studied, what subjects you studied, the grade obtained in each
subject (even if you withdrew from it), what (if any) certificates or diplomas
you received for that study etc...). Then, for your resume, you would simply
list it as From - To and the name of the course...

That is the difference.
- --
Alex Fisher MM
Lodge Caledonian No. 14
United Grand Lodge of Queensland
JB
2004-11-02 02:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex
Or, a resume of your Curriculum Vitae... Which is of course why it
is called a resume :)
A full CV should contain all your activities, education, entire
employment history, all fully detailed (example: under Education,
you would list each and every year you studied, what subjects you
studied, the grade obtained in each subject (even if you withdrew
from it), what (if any) certificates or diplomas you received for
that study etc...). Then, for your resume, you would simply list it
as From - To and the name of the course...
That is the difference.
- --
In my experience of non-academia the term resume is unused in
England.
Jim Stewart
2004-10-31 12:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard White
Post by Richard White
Totally unacceptable.
It could be construed as attempting to use membership to gain advantage.
What relevance does Freemasonry have to how well you would perform your
job? Or your membership of
Post by Richard White
any other private society for that matter?
S & F regards,
Richard White
WM Addington Lodge No. 5080
PM Old Olavians Lodge No. 5758
I wear my ring because I can without impunity.
If asked, I proudly say it is a "lodge symbol"
further than that, and the questioner usually asks if I can help him
join. Out comes the petition.

There are too many places where the consequences of being
public can hurt our brothers.

I do not wear the ring anyplace that does not have an active grand lodge....

Never on a resume....Never.

Jim Stewart
Sam Schwarzman
2004-10-31 14:52:18 UTC
Permalink
From: "Jim Stewart"
I wear my ring because I can without impunity.
If asked, I proudly say it is a "lodge symbol"
further than that, and the questioner usually asks if I can help him
join. Out comes the petition.
Jim, under Most Worshipful Prince Hall of New York, access to a blank petition
is not that easy. In fact, it requires the sponsor to state his case on behalf
of a candidate, on the floor, in open lodge. Based on the candidates merits as
presented by his sponsor, the members take a hands vote just to present a blank
petition. Each petition is then tracked by the secretary.

The rest of the procedure for initiation is about the same as in The Grand
Lodge of New York and other American Jurisdictions such as; the completed
petition read in lodge, a committee to investigate, a ballot, etc.

MWPH is much more selective about it's membership but in my Lodge we recently
raised 7 and this weekend initiated 5 more as EAs.

This was not on topic regarding "resumes" but it seems that thread has now been
beaten to death and you did say "out comes the petition".

In some jurisdictions, it seems to me, the ease of obtaining a blank petition
often puts the petition into a wrong hand. In my mind, that is a major cause of
the weakening of Free Masonry which we see by and large today. In years past,
only those with a burning desire to join were admitted, there were no
membership campaigns, retention programs, district officer training programs,
one day degrees, etc.

Today I hear so much about those "old guys in the Lodge". Those "old guys"
mostly were raised in a more selective Masonic "atmosphere" and they are still
here! Will those that now become Masons ever become "those old guys in the
Lodge Room" or will their Masonic careers be brief? Time will tell, it takes
about 30 to 40 years as a Mason before one reaches that special highly exalted
rank of "The Old Guys". <BWG>

Sam Schwarzman
(An Old Guy)
Don Wagner
2004-10-31 15:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Schwarzman
In some jurisdictions, it seems to me, the ease of obtaining a blank petition
often puts the petition into a wrong hand.
I'd be interested in hearing what you consider the wrong hands.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
In my mind, that is a major cause of the weakening of Free Masonry which we see by and large today. In years past,
only those with a burning desire to join were admitted, there were no
membership campaigns, retention programs, district officer training programs,
one day degrees, etc.
And yet the lodges in the 50's and 60's still had about a 30%+ drop
out rate after 3yrs from what I can tell from the data available to me
from my district in NJ.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Today I hear so much about those "old guys in the Lodge". Those "old guys"
mostly were raised in a more selective Masonic "atmosphere" and they are still
here!
Where did they go wrong in letting the lodges disintegrate? These men
were the officers and PM's during the 70's-80's where mergers,
consolidations and outright disbandments were the norm. If someone is
to blame for the sorry state of affairs in the Craft, I feel these men
should step up and explain their actions or inactions.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Will those that now become Masons ever become "those old guys in the
Lodge Room" or will their Masonic careers be brief? Time will tell, it takes
about 30 to 40 years as a Mason before one reaches that special highly exalted
rank of "The Old Guys". <BWG>
Sure thing. I understand the process very well as my own Dad is one
of the Old Guys. He has no real explanation as to why the lodges
started falling a part other then to say that once they lost touch
with the community the number of men wishing to join declined.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Sam Schwarzman
2004-10-31 21:37:00 UTC
Permalink
From: (Don Wagner)
Post by Sam Schwarzman
In some jurisdictions, it seems to me, the ease of obtaining a blank
petition
Post by Sam Schwarzman
often puts the petition into a wrong hand.
I'd be interested in hearing what you consider the wrong hands.
Sure Don. When you advertise in movie theaters, the radio, newspapers for
members or even hand out petitions on street corners (all of which has happened
in New York) you are selling the fraternity. Kind of like going into a car
dealership or an appliance store and speaking to a salesperson. They want to
sell you a product which you may or may not wish to buy. Is it from the heart
or the result of a sales pitch?

Who will you attract? Well, keep this in mind, an Atheist can say he believes
in God and place his hand on a Bible. If he doesn't believe in God, he has
nothing to lose. You can attract anti Masons giving them the key to cause harm
to lodges. We have seen some of that on Alt.Freemasonry.

You also attract those that are not really sincere about their obligations.
Remember, Masonry claims to take GOOD MEN and to make them BETTER MEN, not
every man. A man sponsored by my Brother in my Prince Hall Lodge comes to me as
one who is highly recommended. The sponsors reputation is on the line so he is
quite careful who he brings in.
And yet the lodges in the 50's and 60's still had about a 30%+ drop
out rate after 3yrs from what I can tell from the data available to me
from my district in NJ.
I can't speak for your Jurisdiction Don, I don't know why you had that drop in
those years but I can speak for the First Nassau District, GLNY. By the time I
joined in June 1973, we had grown to 16 Lodges in our District. We met in 11
Masonic Temples all in our District. In 1973 we were a growing and expanding
District and it looked like we were going to grow forever. Some years before I
was raised, we had one District in Nassau County with 10 Lodges in total.
During the 1950s that had grown to 16 total lodges and was split into First
Nassau and Second Nassau. By the time I was raised in 1973 the number had grown
to 32 Lodges, 16 in each Nassau District. Today they are down to but 7 Lodges
in each District.
Where did they go wrong in letting the lodges disintegrate? These men
were the officers and PM's during the 70's-80's where mergers,
consolidations and outright disbandments were the norm. If someone is
to blame for the sorry state of affairs in the Craft, I feel these men
should step up and explain their actions or inactions.
Don, I find it odd that you would blame those that have remained Masons for
those that have fled. Were it not for your Dad and others who remained, you
might be an Elk or a member of some other fraternity today, they kept it alive.
It was when Masonry opened it's doors for every "Tom, Dick and Harry" that the
speeded up drift out of Masonry escalated.
Sure thing. I understand the process very well as my own Dad is one
of the Old Guys. He has no real explanation as to why the lodges
started falling a part other then to say that once they lost touch
with the community the number of men wishing to join declined.
Your dad might not but I do. All fraternal organizations have gone through
membership swings. It wasn't just Masonry that got clobbered by the decline, it
was every fraternity and service club. No one knows for sure why this happened,
maybe Monday Night Football, Wives going to work or the economy but it
happened. What many Grand Lodges didn't do was to curtail their expenditures to
match their lower income from memberships. Instead, many turned to membership
drives to balance their budgets.

In the short term it worked. More members equals more income but like a
Band-Aid on a large wound, it really just masked a growing problem and even
made it worse. Instead of addressing the real issue which was interesting Lodge
meetings that peaked the members interests, meetings were reduced to just plain
boring business meetings, coffee, a doughnut and a goodnight! Newly raised
Brothers that soon become Masters cannot be expected to create a wholesome
Masonic program. They tend to emulate the stale or boring programs of their
predecessors. It's not their fault, they just haven't seen or learned about
"programs geared to peak Masonic interest".

So just what are we left with to build on? Masters who have been Masons for two
or three years, those that became members because they were sold a bill of
goods and those that are not sincere about the fraternity. Sure there are
bright spots but they become fewer to find every year.

This has not happened to MWPH, they meet their expenses from their dedicated
members which means every Brother of the Lodge. We look to perpetuate the order
in the old fashioned manner that "You have to ask one to be one". What is most
important, we have programs of interest at each and every meeting, a large
collation after the meetings and no "short cuts" to close early. In short, we
have good, wholesome, old fashioned Masonry the way it used to be.

Sam Schwarzman
Don Wagner
2004-10-31 22:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Who will you attract? Well, keep this in mind, an Atheist can say he believes
in God and place his hand on a Bible. If he doesn't believe in God, he has
nothing to lose. You can attract anti Masons giving them the key to cause harm
to lodges. We have seen some of that on Alt.Freemasonry.
What exactly is stopping an "anti-mason" from joining now?
Post by Sam Schwarzman
You also attract those that are not really sincere about their obligations.
Remember, Masonry claims to take GOOD MEN and to make them BETTER MEN, not
every man. A man sponsored by my Brother in my Prince Hall Lodge comes to me as
one who is highly recommended. The sponsors reputation is on the line so he is
quite careful who he brings in.
I'm all for have one lodge per current district if it were a good one.
Lets have each member go through a 10yr initiation process and spend
at least 5hrs a week in the lodge building.

Argueably we'd have BETTER MEN then we have now.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Today they are down to but 7 Lodges in each District.
So what happened? Your growth spurt was in the '70's, ours was in the
50's and 60's. We are both in the same boat and I'd like to know from
these Old Guys what happened.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Don, I find it odd that you would blame those that have remained Masons for
those that have fled.
Blame? I'm asking the guys who were so active and played an important
part in their lodges what happened to screw things up so badly. I'd
rather not make the same mistake through action or inaction.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Were it not for your Dad and others who remained, you
might be an Elk or a member of some other fraternity today, they kept it alive.
On a respirator. During the late '70's and into the mid '90's my
district lost 3 lodges and 5 DeMolay chapters. The same names appear
year after year on the officers list if you look in the old
trestleboards. My own lodge had some men sit in the East 5 times.

If these were the movers and shakers in their day why weren't they
moving and shaking anymore?
Post by Sam Schwarzman
It was when Masonry opened it's doors for every "Tom, Dick and Harry" that the
speeded up drift out of Masonry escalated.
If this is true why did the number of lodges decrease during a time
when more members were supposedly coming in?
Post by Sam Schwarzman
From countless conversations with these old guys in my GL I've come to
a slightly different conclusion. The success of the lodges at their
peaks ('60's for us, '70's for you) fostered complacency. Maybe some
PMs refused to give up the power they held in the East and tried to
rule from behind the throne and this led to stagnation.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
They tend to emulate the stale or boring programs of their
predecessors. It's not their fault, they just haven't seen or learned about
"programs geared to peak Masonic interest".
I agree, but why weren't these programs re-introduced by the Old Guys?
They knew better, didn't they? They had the experience and skills yet
somehow, universally it seems, allowed things to fall a part while
they continued to attend meetings. Does this make sense?
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Mudge
2004-11-01 18:03:01 UTC
Permalink
On 10/31/2004 14:37:00 Sam Schwarzman wrote:

Good stuff snipped
So just what are we left with to build on? Masters who have been Masons
for two or three years, those that became members because they were sold a
bill of goods and those that are not sincere about the fraternity. Sure
there are bright spots but they become fewer to find every year.
This has not happened to MWPH, they meet their expenses from their
dedicated members which means every Brother of the Lodge. We look to
perpetuate the order in the old fashioned manner that "You have to ask one
to be one". What is most important, we have programs of interest at each
and every meeting, a large collation after the meetings and no "short
cuts" to close early. In short, we have good, wholesome, old fashioned
Masonry the way it used to be.
Well said - and 100% true

Cheers

BES (in sunny Calgary)
Balboos
2004-10-31 23:05:33 UTC
Permalink
New Guys Point of View:

The Demographics are part of a problem for which no one can be blamed.
A big influx following WW II, which was not maintained (nor could one
expected it to have be maintained) implies that at some time in the
future (now) there will be a corresponding decline in numbers. The only
thing that would have hidden this would have been another such large
influx coincidentally as these members pass on to a Grander Lodge.

Then there are the cultural changes:

Hundreds of TV stations to consume ones conscious hours - and, with
remote controls - without effort.

Excessive organized recreation for children. In 'my day', we made our
own fun - which we didn't have to pay for, and we didn't need rides all
over creation from our parents, in order to participate. So, who has time?

Peoples social lives, based upon the above, are via surrogates - not a
neighborhood. Their human relations appear on schedule, as per the TV
guide, or the game schedule.

Just a couple of examples, and more could be given. The problem is
competing with unlimited choices in entertainment (and the low
expectations for what passes as entertainment to many), and ever
decreasing free time due to filled free time.

From those who have not yet joined the Craft, and from attendance, many
who have, they've no time, and we're not entertaining enough.

Solutions? That's quite another story. One which I'm not yet able to tell.

Steve Miller
South Shore Long Beach 1126
GL of NY
Post by Don Wagner
Post by Sam Schwarzman
In some jurisdictions, it seems to me, the ease of obtaining a blank petition
often puts the petition into a wrong hand.
I'd be interested in hearing what you consider the wrong hands.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
In my mind, that is a major cause of the weakening of Free Masonry which we see by and large today. In years past,
only those with a burning desire to join were admitted, there were no
membership campaigns, retention programs, district officer training programs,
one day degrees, etc.
And yet the lodges in the 50's and 60's still had about a 30%+ drop
out rate after 3yrs from what I can tell from the data available to me
from my district in NJ.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Today I hear so much about those "old guys in the Lodge". Those "old guys"
mostly were raised in a more selective Masonic "atmosphere" and they are still
here!
Where did they go wrong in letting the lodges disintegrate? These men
were the officers and PM's during the 70's-80's where mergers,
consolidations and outright disbandments were the norm. If someone is
to blame for the sorry state of affairs in the Craft, I feel these men
should step up and explain their actions or inactions.
Post by Sam Schwarzman
Will those that now become Masons ever become "those old guys in the
Lodge Room" or will their Masonic careers be brief? Time will tell, it takes
about 30 to 40 years as a Mason before one reaches that special highly exalted
rank of "The Old Guys". <BWG>
Sure thing. I understand the process very well as my own Dad is one
of the Old Guys. He has no real explanation as to why the lodges
started falling a part other then to say that once they lost touch
with the community the number of men wishing to join declined.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Mudge
2004-10-31 23:07:33 UTC
Permalink
Sure thing. I understand the process very well as my own Dad is one of
the Old Guys. He has no real explanation as to why the lodges started
falling a part other then to say that once they lost touch with the
community the number of men wishing to join declined.
Or, just perhaps, Don - Masonic Lodges, which used to represent, and speak
for, the "best" of their communities - joined the moral degredation of
general society and lost all relevance to those who may once have joined an
"upright" society but now chose instead to let society go its own way
without their help.

When was the last time you heard a Freemason speak out on anything ?

A Society that openly values nothing can not itself be valued !!!

BES (in sunny Calgary)
Don Wagner
2004-11-01 00:08:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mudge
When was the last time you heard a Freemason speak out on anything ?
"In the state (of or partaining to the government civic) you are to be
a quiet and peaceable (of '-full') citizen."

As such, when wearing my "freemason" hat I should strive to keep my
opinions to myself for the sake of the Craft.

As a private citizen I should and can express myself to the limits of
the law.
Post by Mudge
A Society that openly values nothing can not itself be valued !!!
But the values are all there to be valued or discarded by each
brother. So, the society as it were does have values and each of us
has been presented with them as we progressed through our degrees.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Alan Schwartz
2004-11-01 03:13:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mudge
When was the last time you heard a Freemason speak out on anything ?
I hear them speak out here all the time. :)
--
Alan Schwartz, PM
Treasurer, Berwyn Lodge #839, A.F. & A.M., Berwyn, Illinois, USA
32nd deg. Scottish Rite Mason, Valley of Chicago, AASR (NJ)
JB
2004-11-02 02:02:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mudge
When was the last time you heard a Freemason speak out on anything ?
You mean on a non-Masonic issue? Speaking as a Freemason, never
ever. In the whole history of Freemasonry around the world, when did
you ever hear of a Freemason speak out on a non-Masonic issue?
Mudge
2004-11-02 11:19:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mudge
When was the last time you heard a Freemason speak out on anything ?
You mean on a non-Masonic issue? Speaking as a Freemason, never ever. In
the whole history of Freemasonry around the world, when did you ever hear
of a Freemason speak out on a non-Masonic issue?
Over many, many, years Presidents of the USofA, Prime Ministers of Canada
and, I suspect, the UK - well known for their membership in the Craft have
spoken quite frankly of many social, economic and political ills, and or,
foibles or their extant societies - not perhaps as freemasons per se - but
as men well known for their Masonic connections and respected for those
connections as well as their moral fortitude.

Those men, or their ilk, today are silenced by "politocal correctness" and
plain ordinary lack of moral conviction.

I repeat - why should freemaonry, which today's society does not respect
due to its lack of presence, be respected by anyone ?

And, just a thought - would the Freemasons who framed the US Constitution
have the guts to do it today - these men, who openly disobeyed the laws of
the state over 200 years ago and took the Colonies into rebellion dare do
it today - more likely they would be cowed into submission by theor
"betters"

Sad, that !

BES (in Calgary)
JB
2004-11-03 20:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mudge
Post by JB
Post by Mudge
When was the last time you heard a Freemason speak out on
anything ?
You mean on a non-Masonic issue? Speaking as a Freemason, never
ever. In the whole history of Freemasonry around the world, when
did you ever hear of a Freemason speak out on a non-Masonic issue?
Over many, many, years Presidents of the USofA, Prime Ministers of
Canada and, I suspect, the UK - well known for their membership in
the Craft have spoken quite frankly of many social, economic and
political ills, and or, foibles or their extant societies - not
perhaps as freemasons per se - but as men well known for their
Masonic connections and respected for those connections as well as
their moral fortitude.
Those men, or their ilk, today are silenced by "politocal
correctness" and plain ordinary lack of moral conviction.
I repeat - why should freemaonry, which today's society does not
respect due to its lack of presence, be respected by anyone ?
I disagree. If people who were Freemasons spoke today they'd be
considered by today's soundbite culture to be speaking for their
party, political affiliation, religion, or social class. I think
Freemasonry's impact on them would be the last thing considered.

If they made it clear they were speaking as Freemasons, Freemasonry
would indelibly be linked with which ever political affiliation of
the speaker. Something to be avoided in my opinion.
Post by Mudge
And, just a thought - would the Freemasons who framed the US
Constitution have the guts to do it today - these men, who openly
disobeyed the laws of the state over 200 years ago and took the
Colonies into rebellion dare do it today - more likely they would
be cowed into submission by theor "betters"
I think it's somewhat controversial to suggest that (official)
Freemasonry played a part in the US war, I don't consider myself to
know enough about it to take sides in the debate.
Balboos
2004-11-02 02:06:41 UTC
Permalink
At the risk of being shot by the moderators, I'll use a political slogan
form the mid 1980's which, if you think about it, may explain a lot
about the shortfall in membership. And, the slogan that SHOULD have
been consisdered.

Do you remember:

"Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

but, what was not asked was the truly important question:

"Are WE better off now than we were four years ago?"

The first question seemed to appeal to the crowds, though, I contend,
the latter question would appeal to Masons-to-be.

Steve Miller
Post by Mudge
Sure thing. I understand the process very well as my own Dad is one of
the Old Guys. He has no real explanation as to why the lodges started
falling a part other then to say that once they lost touch with the
community the number of men wishing to join declined.
Or, just perhaps, Don - Masonic Lodges, which used to represent, and speak
for, the "best" of their communities - joined the moral degredation of
general society and lost all relevance to those who may once have joined an
"upright" society but now chose instead to let society go its own way
without their help.
When was the last time you heard a Freemason speak out on anything ?
A Society that openly values nothing can not itself be valued !!!
BES (in sunny Calgary)
Jim Stewart
2004-10-31 23:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Schwarzman
From: "Jim Stewart"
I wear my ring because I can without impunity.
If asked, I proudly say it is a "lodge symbol"
further than that, and the questioner usually asks if I can help him
join. Out comes the petition.
Jim, under Most Worshipful Prince Hall of New York, access to a blank petition
is not that easy. In fact, it requires the sponsor to state his case on behalf
of a candidate, on the floor, in open lodge. Based on the candidates merits as
presented by his sponsor, the members take a hands vote just to present a blank
petition. Each petition is then tracked by the secretary.
That is certainly the right and privilege of a grand lodge. But remember, we
are
a small town lodge. Most people know who we are or have come to the local
university
(where I certainly know who they are) with an interest in our traditions if
they want an
extended chat. I disagree somewhat with our current GL thrust for new
members,
but I also feel that we should admit anyone who knows where he is first made
a mason
and lives the life. No, I will keep a petition or two around to start the
right person
on his journey.

Jim Stewart
DeKalb 144
GL Illinois
David Hicks
2004-11-06 14:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Quote " I disagree somewhat with our current GL thrust for new
members"
"Our aim is not to put more men into masonry, but more masonry into men"
Bill Houdek
2004-10-31 23:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Would strongly discourage the practice.

As one who has reviewed countless individuals & resumes, as well as
submitted my own a few times, the relevant information is that which
addresses work qualifications and experience. That would include
work-related professional organizations. In the education portion, a listing
of degrees attained would definitely be in order.

If the prospective employer had anti-Masonic feelings as some do, it would
be counterproductive. On the other hand if the employer were a Mason or had
very positive feelings, it might be construed as an attempt to gain some
sort of an advantage which is definitely un-Masonic behavior.

If the interviewer asks about such affiliations, a positive reply would be
in order but I cannot recall having done so in my 35+ years as a manager.

Bill Houdek
Arnold Lodge #673
Post by Norman T. Eisengart
What do you all think of this?
Acceptable practice or Not?
Thanks,
Norm
Continue reading on narkive:
Search results for 'Including Masonic info on resume' (Questions and Answers)
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